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Kurilka is offline Kurilka
Chieftain
Arkhangelsk, by the White Sea
Dec 2002
time: 08:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 20:18 Visit Kurilka's homepage!
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Programming... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Blake, where are you?
And there were for a long time no activity in the programming area of StP...
Is it planned t code anything at all?
Sorry for the intonation, but may be it's time to do something? It's getting boring just to talk at this forum...

targon is offline targon
Prince
Dolgoprudny, Moscow region
Nov 2002
time: 08:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 20:36
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Sorry for thrusting into coders thread, but I'm 1000% agreed . Any graphics is completely useles without engine rendering it, and this engine is pointless toy without game logic. Current StP "development" is too biased to gameplay discussion, without any game at all.

Vultur is offline Vultur
Warlord
Milan
Jun 2000
time: 06:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 00:52
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Kulika, I partially agree with you: what we need really is to have a complete idea of what we want to do.
I'm not coding for the moment because there isn't a Precise Design.
Just to do an example: the game must be planet-oriented (space travel is only a feature), like all Civ-games or space-oriented (planets are considered bases) like Trade War / Black Nova Traders / Galactic Civilization... or an hybrid?
I suggest to post one (or more) poll to take basilar decision on final result, then add other good ideas later

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 00:58
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me support vultur idea

Jeremy Buloch is offline Jeremy Buloch
Prince
Apparently on the computer
Jan 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 01:15 Visit Jeremy Buloch's homepage!
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I second the support with Vultur.
-J.B.-

Leland is offline Leland
Prince

Jan 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 01:43
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I concur. Just saying "hey, multiple planets / flagships / black holes is a neat idea, let's do it" isn't enough. You should have something (or maybe you do? You've got that GOD thing of yours, right?) written down instead of ideas scattered here and there in forum threads. Something for the coders to start chewing on.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 01:54
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maybe wait until the new site is done GOD will be released then

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 15:56 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Vultur
Kulika, I partially agree with you: what we need really is to have a complete idea of what we want to do.
I'm not coding for the moment because there isn't a Precise Design.
Just to do an example: the game must be planet-oriented (space travel is only a feature), like all Civ-games or space-oriented (planets are considered bases) like Trade War / Black Nova Traders / Galactic Civilization... or an hybrid?
I suggest to post one (or more) poll to take basilar decision on final result, then add other good ideas later


Hi Vultur and the rest of the StP team. I am going to butt in here, in a well-intentioned and hopefully helpful way. When I first glanced at this thread I first saw Vultur's comment above about needing a Precise Design. before coding.

I was about to say something like "Don't wait for the perfect design, coding time is one of your project's most precious resources, and needs to be used as fully as possible". But then I saw he wasn't waiting for all the small details, but rather a definition of what, in Very broad terms, StP will be! Whether StP is similar to SMAC or MOO, or some clever hybrid must be made and locked in for the project to really move forward.

I strongly encourage Immediate development of such a spec to allow your coders to get to Work. Design discussions can go on forever, but it's critical to close off discussion at some point or very little concrete can ever get done. I have fallen prey to this problem once during Clash of Civs development also , so I know what I'm talking about. I personally like desgining a lot more than programming, so its easy for me to be seduced by the Design side of the Force. . . But you can't design a great game in the abstract, at least the odds are fantastically against it. The design needs to move forward a certain amount, and then be Playtested. Otherwise you can find that a part of the core design that you have been polishing is no good, and all that extra effort has been wasted.

Again, I'm just trying to be helpful , and push things in the direction I feel that they Must go if the project isn't to implode as so many do.

If there is a much better spec than I got the impression there is from this thread, and your coders aren't aware of it (seems hard to believe ) then I appologize for butting in.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 16:09
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well there is GOD but that hasnt been published yet but maybe some polls about what we excactly want wouldnt heard.....Blake please clarify...? (not that it is in my direct interest i cant code if my life depended on it :S)

Vultur is offline Vultur
Warlord
Milan
Jun 2000
time: 06:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 23:36
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I see my popularity growth between StP members, good
quote:
I was about to say something like "Don't wait for the perfect design, coding time is one of your project's most precious resources, and needs to be used as fully as possible".

What I desire is not a perfect Design (nothing can be perfect... ) is simple a general idea on what we are looking for...
I've coded an isometric map engine (ok, the graphic is hugly and the code is not perfect...) with 3 month of C++ programming experience, so I know what mean do-before-to-know.
So, let's do this poll!!!

--Vultur, loyal fellow of the Design Side of the Force

carbaher is offline carbaher
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 18:08
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Completely agree with you Vultur.

I asked for programming tasks about a month ago, and since them I haven't even seen any of these tasks. But of course you're right. We should have a general idea of what the game should be first.

Let's do this then. Go on with poll

Rasbelin is offline Rasbelin

Emperor
Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 20:29 Visit Rasbelin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Well, I officially declare that I have no idea why no code has yet been written or why Blake hasn't come up with anything. I have told him several times to get things started, but for unknown reasons, nothing seems to have happened. I have no more information than the rest of you and I can assure you that the situation is very, very confusing. If things don't change, I once again need to appoint someone else to take Blake's position and lead temporarily the coding work. If Carbaher, Vultur or Kurilka want to take the task and co-ordinate the coding for now as Senior Code Writer, feel free to propose that as I have no clue about Blake's whereabouts and his real interest in the project now.

In general, what do you want to poll about?

Mark,

thanks for the input! I'm affraid that the current situation is pretty much to blame Blake for as he's supposed to lead the project and especially the coding process. I hope I can get something out of him, but he's not exactly the most talkative person I know, although he's great in other ways. Anyway, back to business.

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
Smile  Old Post 20-01-2003 00:17 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Rasbelin
thanks for the input!


Thanks Raspbelin, glad my comments were taken in the spirit given. And I'm always happy to provide a needed kick in the pants Good luck on resolving the situation. As you say, if the current hirearchy isn't working for the project you should definitely design a more flexible alternative.

BTW if you're interested please come by the Clash forum and give some feedback on our Diplomacy model discussions. It is being coded now, and we haven't gotten many comments. The link is at the bottom of my sig. Comments at any level are useful, and you don't need to read the whole doc to contribute!

Best Of Luck in getting the StP programming going!

Cya,

Mark

Leland is offline Leland
Prince

Jan 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 00:31
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Poll it!

Jeremy Buloch is offline Jeremy Buloch
Prince
Apparently on the computer
Jan 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 08:21 Visit Jeremy Buloch's homepage!
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Ok We discussed the Diplomacy design on FreeAc but I doubt the core.
If and whenever Blake shows up I'll Im him. I have seen him online but I hardly talk to him as the conversation doesn't get that far. I will ask him to somehow bring up those threads of the early times cause I think he still has them.

BTW Thanks Mark for the help. We really Appreciate a person of your statue helping us.
-J.B.-

Kurilka is offline Kurilka
Chieftain
Arkhangelsk, by the White Sea
Dec 2002
time: 08:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 11:48 Visit Kurilka's homepage!
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Still no Blake,
is he alive?

Rasbelin is offline Rasbelin

Emperor
Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 12:00 Visit Rasbelin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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AFAIK Blake is alive. However new measures will be taken.

targon is offline targon
Prince
Dolgoprudny, Moscow region
Nov 2002
time: 08:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 15:10
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ICBM would be nice. Where Blake actualy is living?

Kurilka is offline Kurilka
Chieftain
Arkhangelsk, by the White Sea
Dec 2002
time: 08:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 15:52 Visit Kurilka's homepage!
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ICBM?

targon is offline targon
Prince
Dolgoprudny, Moscow region
Nov 2002
time: 08:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 15:58
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Why not? Ha-ha, just kidding.

Rasbelin is offline Rasbelin

Emperor
Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:33 Visit Rasbelin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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ICBM = Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile

BTW, that's a good idea for the game too.

Jeremy Buloch is offline Jeremy Buloch
Prince
Apparently on the computer
Jan 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 02:45 Visit Jeremy Buloch's homepage!
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quote:
Where Blake actualy is living?


New Zealand. ~ Off Australia somewhere.
-J.B.-

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