17-01-2003 20:22									#1
	Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

Honourable Senators,

Most of us are now convinced that sanctioning President and Ministers for wrongdoings by impeachment is not adapted to a one month term. But a longer term has already been rejected for quite reasonable reasons. Other forms of punishment, such as forbidding new candidacies, are considered as hurting more the community than punishing the culprits. The only way still opened is to be less radical and more realist.

This is a proposal to adapt our Constitution to the above remarks:

1. The impeachment applies only to the judges.
2. The citizens can still raise a case against a President or a Minister in the frame of ordinary laws for personal detriment resulting from their action in official duties.
3. The Senate has power to decide, not the removal, but the suspension from office for moderate but immediate measures of conservation, according to the following scale :
- suspension for one turnchat (all other powers unchanged)
- suspension of all powers (including turnchat if any) for 3 days
- suspension of all powers (including turchats) for one week
During the suspension, the President duties are performed by the VP

The first two points require an amendment.

The third could be seen as a simple adaptation of the powers granted to the Senate for controlling the Cabinet.

	18-01-2003 01:17									#2
	Re: Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment. Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment. Honourable Senators, Most of us are now convinced that sanctioning President and Ministers for wrongdoings by impeachment is not adapted to a one month term. But a longer term has already been rejected for quite reasonable reasons. Other forms of punishment, such as forbidding new candidacies, are considered as hurting more the community than punishing the culprits. The only way still opened is to be less radical and more realist. This is a proposal to adapt our Constitution to the above remarks: 1. The impeachment applies only to the judges. 2. The citizens can still raise a case against a President or a Minister in the frame of ordinary laws for personal detriment resulting from their action in official duties. 3. The Senate has power to decide, not the removal, but the suspension from office for moderate but immediate measures of conservation, according to the following scale : - suspension for one turnchat (all other powers unchanged) - suspension of all powers (including turnchat if any) for 3 days - suspension of all powers (including turchats) for one week During the suspension, the President duties are performed by the VP The first two points require an amendment. The third could be seen as a simple adaptation of the powers granted to the Senate for controlling the Cabinet.

hi ,

great go nuts , .......

very soon we cant play anymore because we have to read first before every turn a twenty page list of things we can do and we cant , .....

in real live the US con is no more then a small booklet with ten pages , ..... our con is allready approx. four times bigger , .....

have a nice day

	18-01-2003 01:37									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

I think this is a good idea in general.

quote: During the suspension, the President duties are performed by the VP

And if the VP is also impeached? Then does it go down the chain of command?

	18-01-2003 01:55									#4
	Re: Re: Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment. Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , great go nuts , ....... very soon we cant play anymore because we have to read first before every turn a twenty page list of things we can do and we cant , ..... in real live the US con is no more then a small booklet with ten pages , ..... our con is allready approx. four times bigger , ..... have a nice day

Panag, I don't know where you get your numbers :P Just for the hell of it I decided to look it up. I found a complete copy of the US Constitution online and a copy of our own constitution. I selected all the text from each one and made it the same size (Arial 10) and removed all formatting.

The US Constitution is 16 pages in length and contains 37,017 characters. The constitution of Apolytonia is only 8 pages in length (including amendments) and contains 21,563 characters. We have a ways to go my friend

	18-01-2003 02:14									#5
	Re: Re: Re: Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit Panag, I don't know where you get your numbers :P Just for the hell of it I decided to look it up. I found a complete copy of the US Constitution online and a copy of our own constitution. I selected all the text from each one and made it the same size (Arial 10) and removed all formatting. The US Constitution is 16 pages in length and contains 37,017 characters. The constitution of Apolytonia is only 8 pages in length (including amendments) and contains 21,563 characters. We have a ways to go my friend

hi ,

the little booklet , not online contains 641 words , .....

have a nice day

	18-01-2003 02:45									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

maybe your talking about the decleration of indpendance

	18-01-2003 03:23									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Panag,

You are not obliged to participate in a prepoll discussion if you are not interested.

If you participate, at least read the first port and try to understand it. Here we are attempting to simplify, not to add complexity.

And also be sure that reference to the US constitution is not an argument; it does not demonstrate anything : we are no more in the US than in real life.

I am always surprised to hear all those direct or indirect criticisms against a constitution voted triumphally at 92%. Did you read it before voting ?

	18-01-2003 12:25									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 I think this is a good idea in general. And if the VP is also impeached? Then does it go down the chain of command?

This unlikely, although not impossible, situation is not created by the reform.

	20-01-2003 09:55									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This idea seems more real to me than what the process is now. This amendment will be called to task on occasion.

As you likely realize I have real issues of accountability with current con. This would at least provid a first step in "dicipline" for offences without the court being always involved.

Mss