19-01-2003 03:16									#31
	Got spare money?

uh yeah, what they said

	19-01-2003 03:17									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Bah, because Pedrunn waited too long before giving the gold, the map request failed. Now things are not looking good The game was halted to debate if we should go to war...

	19-01-2003 03:25									#33
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

the Austrians have a city directly SW of the the poppie in the corner, do we spend 2 turns rushing to destroy it or run out of their broders to aviod diplomatic consequences???

what else is there to say?

	19-01-2003 03:30									#34
	Suffering from ads?

That's not a poppie, it's a corn/wheat or somesuch.

	19-01-2003 03:40									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It's wheat.

	19-01-2003 03:47									#36
	Support Apolyton

Has offering our map in exchange for theirs the same ingame routine as asking for their map and offering ours in exchange?

Because I always do the latter but Pedrunn did the first...

	19-01-2003 03:50									#37
	Got spare money?

Edit: aaaaaaaaaaarrrrggghhh, Pedrunn used the wrong order...

No offense to Pedrunn, but can we impeach a Prez for incompetence?

Pedrunn, at least read my diplo tips for Medmod before you play another turn...
Edit: here's a link: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum44/...0751-5.html#185

Last edited by Locutus on 19-01-2003 at 04:06

	19-01-2003 03:54									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Can he try again the other way around?

	19-01-2003 03:55									#39
	Remove this text

We can try, but we're in the middle of their borders, they're not gonna be happy about that...

	19-01-2003 04:04									#40
	Suffering from ads?

Wrong order?

Map exchange then gold?
Uuurgh.

"Incompetence is not unconstitutional"
following instructions however?

	19-01-2003 04:10									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

no IW, not about the gold, but offer-request vs. request-offer. Pedrunn did the first, while the second is clearly the way to do it properly!

	19-01-2003 04:14									#42
	Put an end to popups!

No, first request map, then offer it. Not offer first, then request...

	19-01-2003 04:41									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It makes a difference?

Strange.

	19-01-2003 04:43									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Chat report
(Should I edit out the OT stuff? I think H Tower did last time, but it's kinda interesting this way...)

[21:54] <Pedrunn> THE GAME IS LAUNCHED
[21:54] <Locutus> pedrunn, Maq probably won't show
[21:54] <Pedrunn>
[21:55] <HTower> what?
[21:55] <HTower> sorry, wrong window
[21:56] <Pedrunn> IW: Will we threat the Austrians in the exchange map proposal?
[21:56] <Locutus> I think you should start with posting an update of the situation Pedrunn, you ended the turn to do some diplomacy and stuff, so I'm not sure where we stand right now...
[21:57] <Zephyr> Locutus, 3 more posts and you overtake DanQ
[21:57] <Locutus> threatening won't help now. we need to give 100 gold and wait 1 turn first...
[21:57] <Locutus> only 3?
[21:57] <The-Gingerbread-Man> When Dan posts its a notible occasion though :/
[21:58] <Locutus> Hmm, if I joined two more DGs I'll be Deity before Jay Bee after all
[21:58] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Locutus = Poly's 7th Deity
[21:59] <Zephyr> lol
[21:59] <Zephyr> who needs sleep anyway? pah
[21:59] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Will he suffer the same fate as the 6th
[21:59] <HTower> is some one logging?
[21:59] <Locutus> nah, I'm aiming to be the 12th, 12 is my lucky number
[22:00] <Locutus> me
[22:00] <Pedrunn> IW: Will we threat the Austrians in the exchange map proposal?
[22:00] <HTower>
[22:00] <Zephyr> no
[22:00] <Zephyr> I'm still convinced its not worth it
[22:00] <Zephyr> give them gold. its your prerogative to determine how much
[22:01] <Zephyr> possibly
[22:01] <The-Gingerbread-Man> This is all too political for me.
[22:01] <Locutus> theatening doesn't cost anything AFAIK. but it won't help either, not right now...
[22:01] <HuangShang> no gold
[22:01] <Zephyr> how much gold do we have?
[22:02] <Zephyr> Martin's here
[22:02] <Locutus> where is here?
[22:03] <Zephyr> #apolyton at the moment
[22:03] <Locutus> I think you should start with posting an update of the situation Pedrunn, you ended the turn to do some diplomacy and stuff, so I'm not sure where we stand right now...
[22:04] * Lemmy has joined #lemuria
[22:04] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Have we played any turns since the last chat?
[22:04] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Lemmy!
[22:04] <Pedrunn> I have just posted the screen of the game now in the chat thread. I will post the situation now
[22:04] <Lemmy> ello
[22:04] <The-Gingerbread-Man> The most inactive poster in the CtP2 DG!
[22:04] <The-Gingerbread-Man> :P
[22:04] <Locutus> a long lost citizen!
[22:04] <Lemmy>
[22:04] <Locutus> frozzy, pedrunn played 1 turn, I believe...
[22:04] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Wow...
[22:05] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Is that 1 (One) turn? We need to go faster :/
[22:05] <Pedrunn> Where shall we move the first warrior?
[22:05] <Lemmy> 1 turn since the start of the game?
[22:05] <HuangShang> i'll go check out the screen
[22:05] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Lemmy, no,
[22:05] <Pedrunn> turn 12 at the moment
[22:05] <Lemmy> oh..ok
[22:05] <Zephyr> 1 turn since the last chat
[22:05] <The-Gingerbread-Man> One turn since the last turn chat 2 weeks ago.
[22:05] <Pedrunn> the situation is here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...112#post1637876
[22:06] <Locutus> yeah, all great leaders have nicknames right? alex the great, suleyman the magnificant... we should call ours Pedrunn the Slow
[22:06] <J_Bytheway> At 12 a month we should finish within 5 years or so...
[22:06] * Martin_G has joined #lemuria
[22:06] <Zephyr> Suleyman?
[22:06] <Locutus> the turk?
[22:06] <Pedrunn> ALL: Where shall we move the first warrior?
[22:06] <J_Bytheway> Out of their territory
[22:07] <Locutus> indeed
[22:07] <HuangShang> no, we must explore
[22:07] <Locutus> (loading map now to give better advise)
[22:07] <Martin_G> Out of there territory we have a withdraw treaty
[22:07] <Locutus> go north
[22:07] <The-Gingerbread-Man> MY 56K SUCKS!
[22:07] <HuangShang> im using UCLA's L4
[22:08] <HuangShang> imean t4
[22:08] <J_Bytheway> Remindme, who is the Gingerbread Man?
[22:08] <Zephyr> Frozzy
[22:08] <Locutus> frozzy
[22:08] <Lemmy> frozzy
[22:08] <J_Bytheway>
[22:08] * Lemmy is now known as Lemmy[2]
[22:08] <Zephyr> nee Redbull
[22:08] <Lemmy[2]>
[22:08] <Locutus> since when do you speak Dutch, IW?
[22:09] * Lemmy[2] is now known as Lemmy
[22:09] <Pedrunn> ALL: All agree we should go north?
[22:09] <J_Bytheway> yep
[22:09] <Zephyr> since we raped your language and stole all the best words to use in English
[22:09] <Locutus> and zephyr is IW, in case anyone was still wondering...
[22:09] <The-Gingerbread-Man> And English still sucks.
[22:09] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Does that mean Dutch sucks?
[22:10] <Locutus> as long as you remember where you got them from
[22:10] <HuangShang> i think english is very easy....
[22:10] <Locutus> not necessarily, but it happens to be true
[22:10] <Zephyr> I thought it was French (:hangs head in shame
[22:10] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Lemmy is an evil Dutchie.
[22:10] <Locutus> huangshang: it's your native language?
[22:10] <J_Bytheway> It is French
[22:10] <HuangShang> Chinese
[22:10] <J_Bytheway> except with an accent
[22:11] <Locutus> hmm, odd. most chinese (and other asians) have plenty of trouble with english...
[22:11] <HuangShang> did we move north?
[22:11] <Zephyr> yeah. thought so. couldnt be bothered to find an acute e though
[22:11] <J_Bytheway> Most English have trouble too...
[22:11] <Pedrunn> north
[22:12] <Pedrunn> Where to go with the second warrior?
[22:12] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Most foreigers always do this: My 56k sucks !
[22:12] <Locutus> and still I can understand english folk better than chinese when they speak english (although sometimes only barely )...
[22:12] <HuangShang> 5as my friend once said: English was made by dumb people so it is easier to learn
[22:12] <Martin_G> The second warrior should go into the other dircton of the river
[22:12] <Locutus> good question Pedrunn. we could defend, we could follow the river... what turn is htis?
[22:12] * The-Gingerbread-Man dislikes the Pommy accent
[22:12] * Zephyr dislikes your face *
[22:13] <The-Gingerbread-Man> I can't listen to Poms for too long.
[22:13] <Locutus> not me, Frozzy, I'm on the fastest network in europe
[22:13] <Pedrunn> turn 12
[22:13] <Locutus> well, follow the river then, we have 8 turns
[22:13] <HuangShang> 2he should head toward Austria or fortify
[22:13] <Locutus> what are we building?
[22:13] <Martin_G> The other warrior should return until turn 20
[22:13] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Warrior.
[22:14] <Locutus> should be Settler...
[22:14] <HuangShang> nnnooooo
[22:14] <Locutus> it's winning in the poll...
[22:14] * Lemmy is now known as AyCaramba
[22:14] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Speaking of Warriors...
[22:14] * AyCaramba is now known as Lemmy
[22:14] <Martin_G> Yes a settler
[22:14] <mapfi> follow the river west
[22:14] <Zephyr> or at least get that warrior down the river and find us a flippin' goodie hut. We cant win with 1 city.
[22:14] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Lemmington sucks
[22:14] <Locutus> west? why? we already went there, no?
[22:14] * Zephyr considers plugging the OCC scenario for these warrior-loving fools*
[22:15] <Locutus> nm
[22:15] <The-Gingerbread-Man> OCC
[22:15] <Locutus> OCC on SAP should be interesting...
[22:15] <mapfi> i mean west then south following that river
[22:15] <Pedrunn> Should we send the secon warrior east or north west?
[22:15] <Zephyr> OCC on Cradle...
[22:15] <Locutus> yeah, mapfi, I said nm.
[22:15] <HuangShang> yeah
[22:15] <Pedrunn> east is the place we started the game
[22:15] <Zephyr> east or south-west surely?
[22:16] <Locutus> either way is fine with me, Pedrunn, as long as we follow the river...
[22:16] <Pedrunn> nrth west to them move south
[22:16] <mapfi> one move north-west, then west -follow the river
[22:16] <HuangShang> follow the river
[22:16] <Zephyr> mapfi
[22:17] <Martin_G> move east follow the river
[22:17] <Pedrunn> The river will be followed
[22:17] <HuangShang> mapfi's right
[22:17] <Zephyr> actually, no, what martin said
[22:17] <Zephyr> go east
[22:17] <Zephyr> we can get the west map from austroa
[22:17] <Zephyr> *austria
[22:17] <Pedrunn> we are kind of divided, arent we?
[22:17] <Locutus> good point, go east...
[22:18] <HuangShang> impossible
[22:18] <Locutus> someone should make the calls, someone like Maq
[22:18] <J_Bytheway> What's wrong with north?
[22:18] <J_Bytheway> (along the river...)
[22:18] <Locutus> J, we're talking about the other warrior
[22:18] <J_Bytheway> Ah, sorry
[22:18] <mapfi> there's just sand in the east, down south is the spot for our next city - and the sutrians are in the west not in the south
[22:18] <The-Gingerbread-Man> ^_^
[22:19] <Martin_G> the first warrior can and should go north
[22:19] <Zephyr> the river isnt going south. chances are we'll get something useful from the austrians. judging from their borders, it doesnt look like they have too many cities
[22:20] <Pedrunn> the first warrior already moved north
[22:20] <Zephyr> shall we just do a quick poll
[22:20] <mapfi> yep
[22:20] <Locutus> okay
[22:20] <Martin_G> OK second warrior east
[22:20] <Locutus> east
[22:21] <Pedrunn> Locutus, do you accept be the Maqs delegate for this chat?
[22:21] <HuangShang> nw, then w, then sw
[22:21] <mapfi> second huangshang
[22:21] <Locutus> (east: 2, (north-)west: 0, other: 0)
[22:21] <Pedrunn> I am going nuts with the alt tabs and reading chat, an all other stuff
[22:21] <Locutus> pedrunn: yeah, sure...
[22:21] * Dale has joined #lemuria
[22:22] <Dale> Hi all.
[22:22] <HuangShang>
[22:22] <Locutus> cool, this chat is going to be busy
[22:22] <J_Bytheway> east
[22:22] <Locutus> well, people vote now...
[22:22] <Locutus> (east: 3, (north-)west: 0, other: 0)
[22:22] <Dale> What's the vote?
[22:22] <Zephyr> sw
[22:22] <Locutus> (east: 3, southwest: 1, other: 0)
[22:22] <Zephyr> where to move the second settler. I vote follow the river west-south-west
[22:23] <Dale> sw
[22:23] <Locutus> (east: 3, (south)west: 1, other: 0)
[22:23] <Locutus> (east: 3, (south)west: 2, other: 0)
[22:23] <Pedrunn> west
[22:23] <J_Bytheway> Two said nw (HS and mapfi)
[22:23] <Locutus> (east: 3, (south)west: 3, other: 0)
[22:23] <Martin_G> Hope you mean the Warrior Zephyr
[22:23] <Zephyr> yup
[22:23] <mapfi> ahem , loc what about my and huang's vote?
[22:23] <Locutus> (east: 3, southwest: 3, northwest: 2, other: 0)
[22:23] <The-Gingerbread-Man>
[22:24] <HuangShang> k
[22:24] <Zephyr> Locutus, Huang's vote was the same SW as my vote
[22:24] <Zephyr> along the river
[22:24] <mapfi> as is mine
[22:24] <Locutus> well, west is west, we all want to follow the river, no?
[22:24] <Zephyr> going straight SW is dumb. but generally, "nw,w,sw" is/will be SW
[22:24] <HuangShang> i think thats what we all meant, along the river
[22:24] <Locutus> (east: 3, west: 5, other: 0)
[22:24] <mapfi> exactly
[22:25] <HuangShang> perfect
[22:25] <HuangShang> missing 3 votes
[22:25] <HuangShang> but whose?
[22:25] <Locutus> still 3 people to vote. HT, Lemmy, Frozzy...
[22:25] <Locutus> (I think)
[22:26] <Locutus> hmm, if they don't vote fast we'll go west...
[22:26] <HuangShang> if one more goes to west, we win
[22:26] <Lemmy> vote? i abstain
[22:27] <HuangShang> ok, if another one abstain, we win
[22:27] <Locutus> then east can't win, only draw. I say let's go west, then we can continue
[22:27] <HuangShang> k
[22:27] <Zephyr> yup
[22:27] <Locutus> follow the river west, pedrunn...
[22:27] <Zephyr> shall I start the song again?
[22:27] <Martin_G> OK continue go west
[22:27] <Martin_G> No
[22:27] <Locutus> lol
[22:27] <Pedrunn> lol
[22:28] <HuangShang> new screen?
[22:28] * Lemmy has left #lemuria
[22:28] <Pedrunn> warrior moved west
[22:28] * The-Gingerbread-Man abstains
[22:28] <Martin_G> Yes we need a new screen
[22:29] <Pedrunn> What to build next?
[22:29] <Martin_G> settler
[22:29] <Locutus> settler, it's winning the poll...
[22:29] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Settler2!
[22:29] <HuangShang> aww
[22:29] <Martin_G> Yes settler won the poll
[22:29] <Locutus> how much gold do we have, Pedrunn?
[22:29] <Pedrunn> settler since we are friendly toward the Austrians
[22:29] <J_Bytheway> Settler - is there any chance of rushing it later?
[22:29] <Pedrunn> 211
[22:30] <Pedrunn> gold
[22:30] <Locutus> did you give the Austrians some yet?
[22:30] <Pedrunn> no
[22:30] <Locutus> hmmm...
[22:30] <HuangShang> dont give
[22:30] <Locutus> well, let's go find us a goody hut
[22:30] <Locutus> no, we should give 100 Gold...
[22:30] * Dale likes goody huts
[22:30] <Pedrunn> Settler to be built in 20 turns
[22:30] <Martin_G> only if they give their map to us
[22:30] <Locutus> get their map...
[22:31] <Locutus> they will
[22:31] <Pedrunn> how
[22:31] <Pedrunn> ???
[22:31] <HuangShang> threaten?
[22:31] <Locutus> read my lips
[22:31] <Martin_G> Build settler and get their map
[22:31] <Pedrunn> asking again?
[22:31] <Locutus> how what? just give them 100 gold now and ask for a map-exchange next turn...
[22:31] <Martin_G> Build settler
[22:32] <HuangShang> no screen?
[22:32] <Martin_G> Get their map in exchange of 100 gold
[22:32] <Locutus> turn's not over yet, huang...
[22:32] <Locutus> they won't take it, Martin. give them 100 Gold now and ask for map later. they're guaranteed to accept it...
[22:33] <HuangShang> really
[22:33] <Martin_G> They don't accept even if we threat them if not
[22:33] <Pedrunn> I will we send any other proposal?
[22:33] * Dale agrees with Loc. 100 gold now, map exchange next turn.
[22:33] <Locutus> no, pedrunn, just give gold.
[22:34] <Pedrunn> Screen loaded
[22:34] <HuangShang> k
[22:34] <Locutus> interesting
[22:34] <HuangShang> Turns to finish Warrior: 1??
[22:35] <Pedrunn> we have finish the warrior
[22:35] <Locutus> huangshang: no, 5 (assuming we don't have any farmers)
[22:35] <Pedrunn> thats why there are 2 in the map
[22:35] <Pedrunn> no farmers
[22:35] <Martin_G> city size?
[22:36] <HuangShang> did their settler move?
[22:36] <Locutus> +/- 2,500 (2)
[22:36] <Pedrunn> we just reached 2 this turn
[22:36] <Locutus> no, huang
[22:36] <Pedrunn> their settler surprisinly did not moved
[22:36] <mapfi> you ended the turn?
[22:37] <Pedrunn> IW, Any proposal???
[22:37] <Locutus> ped, you sure? last time I checked the savegame it was already size 2 and that was last turn...
[22:37] <Pedrunn> i was not that sure. So i will take your word locutus
[22:37] <Martin_G> Probably the Settler is in the ZOC of our Warrior
[22:37] <HuangShang> 3then does the warrior keep moving north?
[22:37] <HuangShang> zoc?
[22:37] <Pedrunn> warrior moves north as agreed here
[22:38] <Locutus> we'll decide on that after Pedrunn ends the turn, Huang. diplomacy is up now...
[22:38] <Martin_G> Yes the warrior should move North onto the river
[22:38] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Laters
[22:38] <Pedrunn> END TURN 12

	19-01-2003 04:43									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

[22:38] <mapfi> pedrunn - can you post the savegame after you ended this turn?
[22:38] <Martin_G> ZOC: Zone Of Control
[22:38] <Locutus> pedrunn, did you send a proposal?
[22:38] <Pedrunn> no
[22:38] <HuangShang> k
[22:39] <Pedrunn> was i suppose to?
[22:39] <Zephyr> y?
[22:39] <Zephyr> AAAARGH!
[22:39] <Locutus> that makes it harder to get their map... (should still be okay though)
[22:39] <Locutus> yes, you were...
[22:39] <Zephyr> For God's sake, give them 100 gold Pedrunn
[22:39] <HuangShang> uhoh
[22:39] <Pedrunn> i can laucn the auto save
[22:39] * The-Gingerbread-Man has left #lemuria
[22:39] <Locutus> no need, just give 100 gold now...
[22:40] <HuangShang> will that leave us w/ 1 or 11 or 111 or 101 left?
[22:40] <Pedrunn> Giving 100 gold proposal accepted
[22:40] <Locutus> 111
[22:40] <Zephyr> 111 + whatever we got at the start of this turn
[22:40] <Pedrunn> LOC: Where to move the warrior?
[22:41] <HuangShang> the screen said 201 for some reason.........
[22:41] <Pedrunn> posting screen shot
[22:41] <Locutus> what do people think (warrior 1 first)
[22:41] <Locutus> (the northern one)
[22:41] <Zephyr> follow the river. only deviate if we hit a coast, or see a goody hut
[22:41] <Locutus> I say north, back to the river...
[22:41] <mapfi> second that
[22:41] <J_Bytheway> Follow river
[22:41] <HuangShang> i dont know, maybe keep the settler in sight
[22:41] <Martin_G> Yes back to the river
[22:42] <J_Bytheway> We need to seek huts - cover as much ground as possible.
[22:42] <Locutus> huang, we need to find huts...
[22:42] <Pedrunn> the settler moved toward us
[22:42] <HuangShang> ok, so north then
[22:42] <Locutus> move north, pedrunn. first 1 tile, see if there's any interesting terrain. if no, go north again...
[22:43] <HuangShang> yeah
[22:43] <Martin_G> Yes North and North
[22:43] * The-Gingerbread-Man has joined #lemuria
[22:43] <Locutus> (interesting terrain is mainly coast or hut)
[22:44] <Zephyr> er... the river doesn't go north, north. We'll probbly have to do north-northeast
[22:44] <Locutus> (or unit)
[22:44] <J_Bytheway> The river does go north north
[22:44] <mapfi> no IW - we can move north-north
[22:44] <HuangShang> i thnk n-n is very possible
[22:44] <Locutus> we'll uncover tiles faster if we go n-n...
[22:44] <Pedrunn> the image was too big. I am loading the image again
[22:44] <HuangShang> ohk
[22:45] <HuangShang> *i was wondering *
[22:45] <Locutus> no need to post an imige pedrunn, only if there's something to see...
[22:45] <Locutus> (the game is going slow enough as it is)
[22:45] <Pedrunn> north it is
[22:45] <HuangShang> he mentioned it a while ago
[22:46] <Pedrunn> LOC: The second warrior!
[22:46] <Pedrunn> loading newer image
[22:46] <Martin_G> follow the river
[22:46] <Locutus> what do people think? I say sw-sw
[22:46] <HuangShang> that or sw-s
[22:46] <mapfi> i think the second move depends on what we see
[22:47] <Locutus> sw-s? there's no river there. you mean sw-w?
[22:47] <HuangShang> the screen is the same one though
[22:47] <Zephyr> follow the river. sw
[22:47] <HuangShang> yeah or sw-sw
[22:47] <J_Bytheway> sw-sw
[22:47] <mapfi> actually, sw-sw is fine
[22:47] <Zephyr> ack. isometric screws with my mind
[22:47] <Martin_G> sw-sw == follow the river
[22:48] <Zephyr> sw-w == cover more ground
[22:48] <Locutus> sw-sw it is. Pedrunn, do your thing...
[22:48] <HuangShang> what if the settler settles
[22:48] <J_Bytheway> I played Master of Magic recently and couldn't get my head round the non-isometric view
[22:48] <Pedrunn> uploading new image
[22:48] <Locutus> hmm, you're right, IW, but the Austrians probably already covered that terrain...
[22:48] <HuangShang> Master of Magic?, is it old?
[22:49] <J_Bytheway> If the settler settles the Austrians probably declare war for us violating territory.
[22:49] <Pedrunn> END TURN 13, now?
[22:49] <J_Bytheway> MoM is indeed old. Between Civ1 and Civ2, I guess.
[22:49] <Dale> Master of magic was a brilliant civ spinoff
[22:49] <Locutus> fine with me, Pedrunn.
[22:49] <Martin_G> What is with the map
[22:49] <HuangShang> did we ask for the map, or are u not going to
[22:49] <Dale> i loved it! always played the dark elves
[22:49] <Locutus> huang: next turn...
[22:49] <Pedrunn> END TURN 13
[22:50] <Locutus> now ask for a map-exchange
[22:50] <mapfi> yep
[22:50] <HuangShang> glass*******
[22:50] * Dale chants MAP! MAP! MAP!
[22:50] <Pedrunn> We cant see the settler anymore
[22:50] <HuangShang> yup
[22:50] <mapfi> if we don't get their map then locutus is srewed...
[22:50] <Pedrunn> we have become neutral with austrians
[22:51] <HuangShang> ohk
[22:51] * The-Gingerbread-Man has quit IRC (Quit: )
[22:51] <Martin_G> ok get their map
[22:51] <Locutus> hey, pedrunn forgot to propose (they should be happy )
[22:51] <Pedrunn> no they were angry before
[22:51] <Pedrunn> they improved to neutral
[22:51] <Pedrunn> now
[22:52] <Locutus> 100 gold should have made them happy (or content, whatever it's called)
[22:52] <HuangShang> why were they angry?
[22:52] <Dale> 100 gold will only improve 2 levels loc, not 3
[22:52] <Locutus> but just ask for the map, we'll see...
[22:52] <Zephyr> uh-huh. "guaranteed"
[22:52] * The-Gingerbread-Man has joined #lemuria
[22:52] <Locutus> they were discontent, so they should have gone to content...
[22:53] <Locutus> we were in their territory, huang...
[22:53] <Locutus> zephyr, pedrunn didn't act fast enough... but we *should* be okay...
[22:53] <Martin_G> actual we are sharing the same continent
[22:53] <Pedrunn> IW: Should we send any proposal
[22:53] <Pedrunn> ???
[22:54] <Locutus> that too, but that's a very minor regard cost compared to breaking borders...
[22:54] <Martin_G> that cost every turn two regard points
[22:54] <Locutus>
[22:54] <Pedrunn> IW: Should we send any proposal?
[22:54] <Locutus> IW, better say yes now or he'll end the turn again and it won't work
[22:54] <Zephyr> yes
[22:55] <Pedrunn> :eye brown lifted
[22:55] <Locutus> we all want a map pedrunn
[22:55] * Zephyr wants map exchaneg
[22:55] <Martin_G> Actual it is time for our first warrior to return to our capital
[22:55] <Pedrunn> Obsequious/meek?
[22:56] <mapfi> exchange! just so pedrunn doesn't just demand theirs
[22:56] <Zephyr> yes
[22:56] <Locutus> yes
[22:56] <Martin_G> Probably he won't be able to do it in the next turns
[22:56] <Locutus> yes, exchange pedrunn, offer our map in return!
[22:56] <HuangShang> k
[22:56] <Martin_G> Yes we need their map
[22:56] <The-Gingerbread-Man>
[22:56] <Pedrunn> ENCHANGE MAP PROPOSAL REJECTED
[22:56] <Locutus> aaaaaarggghhh.....
[22:57] <Locutus> the extra turn waiting was fatal
[22:57] <Martin_G> threat
[22:57] * The-Gingerbread-Man is now known as settler2
[22:57] * settler2 is now known as TGM
[22:57] <Locutus> yes, threaten. I don' tthink it wil help but let's try...
[22:57] <Pedrunn> threat?
[22:57] <Locutus> yes
[22:57] * TGM is now known as The-Gingerbread-Man
[22:57] * Zephyr concurs
[22:57] <Martin_G> Yes
[22:57] <Martin_G> threat
[22:57] <HuangShang> what happens after that?
[22:58] <Pedrunn> No help at all
[22:58] <Martin_G> actual that won't have any consequences
[22:58] <Martin_G> if they reject I mean
[22:58] <Locutus> I think that if we offer 100 more gold we can still get their map (not sure though as I never made such a stupid move myself), but do we want to pay that much?
[22:59] <Zephyr> does anyone have any other ideas of what to spend gold on?
[22:59] <Locutus> rush-buying the settler...
[22:59] <mapfi> don't gold gifts just increase regard every x turns or so?
[22:59] <HuangShang> no more money, we still havent spoted a hut
[22:59] <Martin_G> Yes no more mony so threat them
[23:00] <Zephyr> no more money til we find a hut with gold, settler or city in it
[23:00] <Pedrunn> Gold 123
[23:00] <Locutus> I think it works every turn, mapfi, but only 80% sure...
[23:00] <mapfi> dale?
[23:00] <Pedrunn> Rush buy settler 5084 gold
[23:00] <The-Gingerbread-Man> What turn are we/
[23:00] <The-Gingerbread-Man> *?
[23:00] <Pedrunn> 13
[23:01] <Locutus> so, let's wait a few turns and ask again in a while. may help (although we'll still need to pay 100 again)
[23:01] <Pedrunn> Where to move the first settler?
[23:01] <Dale> not usre
[23:01] <Dale> sure
[23:01] <Martin_G> just 7 turns left our first warrior must return
[23:01] <Locutus> follow the river, Pedrunn, that's a given...
[23:01] <mapfi> yep, ne-ne
[23:02] <Locutus> actually, I think the 1st warrior should continue in that direction. let the 2nd one defend the city...
[23:02] <J_Bytheway> The first will take forever to get back, that's no use.
[23:02] <Locutus> exactly
[23:02] <Martin_G> 2OK OK the second warrior has to return
[23:03] <Pedrunn> Lets return the first. The second should explore the Autrian territory
[23:03] <Locutus> and the 2nd one is probably in territory the Austrians will hopefully give us in their map in the future...
[23:03] <mapfi> and make them angry again? No.
[23:03] <Martin_G> Hey we have a withdraw treaty
[23:03] <J_Bytheway> We won't find huts in Austria, either.
[23:03] <Locutus> pedrunn, we have a treaty, let's not piss them off. plus, no goody huts there anymore...
[23:04] <Pedrunn> oh no!
[23:04] <Martin_G> what?
[23:04] <J_Bytheway> Another nation?
[23:04] <mapfi> I'd move the second settler south for three turns and then return - he'll be back in the city on turn 20
[23:04] <mapfi> make that just twice south
[23:04] <Locutus> P: what happen?
[23:04] <J_Bytheway> you mean warrior?
[23:05] <Pedrunn> the austrian setler settled. I just notice beacuse of their borders!!!
[23:05] <mapfi> ah yes, warrior
[23:05] <Locutus> so, move out of them following the river...
[23:05] <Martin_G> 2we violated their borders
[23:05] <HuangShang> do we go to war?
[23:05] <Martin_G> 2no with what
[23:05] * Dale likes WAR!
[23:05] <Locutus> no war. that's suicide.
[23:05] <J_Bytheway> I think not if we escape this turn...
[23:06] <Locutus> pedrunn: what's the situation? did you move the first warrior yet?
[23:06] <HuangShang> we can get out or dig in!
[23:06] <Zephyr> can we get out?
[23:06] <Pedrunn> no
[23:06] <The-Gingerbread-Man> War ist verboten!
[23:06] <Pedrunn> i am posting the screeshot
[23:06] <mapfi> shouldn't we take the opportunity to get a chunk of their gold and pw?
[23:07] <Dale> if war, take that city the austrian settler just settled.
[23:07] <Dale> they accept peace then
[23:07] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Minus 1 city is good
[23:07] <HuangShang> i think we'll wait for that city to be size 2
[23:07] <mapfi> i second dale
[23:07] <Locutus> mapfi: if we do that, let's at least take the city as well, now the city will just get destroyed and we'll be stuck with 1 cityy and 2 warriors and some very angry, powerful neighbours...
[23:08] <mapfi> the time it has size 2 it'll be packed with units and attack us continouslky
[23:08] <Dale> if we take it now, the city is dead. austria can't get city back then and will accept peace.
[23:08] <HuangShang> i second loc
[23:08] <Martin_G> But if the city grows to size two there might be a warrior in
[23:08] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Locutus, but we're getting no-where
[23:08] <The-Gingerbread-Man> The Austrians will not allow us to see their maps, and I don't see them doing it in the future
[23:09] <Pedrunn> Does Good Mod gives the austrian gold and PW in case of conquerin cities?
[23:09] <HuangShang> the city is where we saw it last
[23:10] <HuangShang> its sw of the good on the river
[23:10] <Pedrunn> Go to war i say
[23:10] <Martin_G> We the city taking options gives every conquer of cities gold and pw
[23:10] <mapfi> yep
[23:10] <HuangShang> we'll get there in 2 turns
[23:10] <Martin_G> That is true for the Austrians and for us
[23:10] <mapfi> destroy that city
[23:10] <Dale> destroy it!
[23:11] <Martin_G> Well if war then destroy the city
[23:11] <HuangShang> do we declare war this or next turn
[23:11] <Zephyr> Should we not be making this a public poll?
[23:11] <Dale> war is a public poll
[23:11] <Martin_G> And follow the river and use the crossed sword trick
[23:11] <Locutus> quick poll: do we go to war by taking the city? yes/no/abstain (yes: 3, no: 0, abstain: 0)
[23:11] <J_Bytheway> IIRC war requires such a poll.
[23:11] <Dale> its in the con
[23:11] <J_Bytheway> (that is, a proper one)
[23:11] <Locutus> you're right, we need a proper poll...
[23:11] <Pedrunn> So halt the game?
[23:11] <Locutus> so we can't continue...
[23:12] <mapfi> it requires an official poll where the minister (IW) defines how long the poll will be open - so quick poll is ok
[23:12] <Zephyr> MoD or MoDST ?
[23:12] <HuangShang> so what, we really stop, i mean thats ok, but we only did a couple turns
[23:12] <Locutus> no, I think a proper poll is needed mapfi, this is too important...
[23:12] <Locutus> checking constitution now...
[23:13] <Pedrunn> it is obligatory
[23:13] <Dale> MoDST makes the poll with advice from MoD
[23:13] <HuangShang> how many turns DID we move?
[23:13] <Pedrunn> 2
[23:13] <Pedrunn>
[23:13] <HuangShang>
[23:13] * Dale will have to have a War Party cabinet meeting poll too
[23:13] <Locutus> article II.2.IV(c): (c) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science has the control over all unconventional units, except settlers. Spending gold with the unconventional units orders has to be approved by President. Any action which would result in a declaration of war has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
[23:14] <Zephyr> hmmm
[23:14] <Locutus> sorry, wrong part
[23:14] <HuangShang> k dale
[23:14] <HuangShang> lol
[23:14] <Locutus> article II.2.V(b): Any action which would result in a declaration of war has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
[23:14] <Locutus> that's for MoD
[23:14] <HuangShang> its still in there
[23:15] <Locutus> in this case me, but if we end this chat it will be maq again...
[23:15] <J_Bytheway> It should reference article IV, not article III - another little mistake
[23:15] <Pedrunn> Can i post for him again
[23:15] <mapfi> and as for the time the official poll has to be up: Official polls shall only expire in a day chosen by the officer who opened the poll. And if the poll has an expiring day the same officer who started it must include this information in the first post.
[23:15] <Dale> wanna try Pedrun?
[23:16] <Locutus> it should be article two: executive branch, John. article 4 is polling...
[23:16] <Pedrunn>
[23:16] <Locutus> ah, wait. nm...
[23:16] <Dale> hahahaha
[23:16] <Pedrunn>
[23:16] * The-Gingerbread-Man{ghost} has joined #lemuria
[23:16] * The-Gingerbread-Man has quit IRC (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by The-Gingerbread-Man{ghost})))
[23:16] * The-Gingerbread-Man{ghost} is now known as The-Gingerbread-Man
[23:17] * The-Gingerbread-Man is now known as The-Gingerbread-Man{Breakfast}
[23:17] <Locutus> so all we can do now is wait for Maq to return and post a poll. (how many days until the election are over?)
[23:17] <Pedrunn> The game is halted

	19-01-2003 04:45									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

we don't get to see who said what?

	19-01-2003 04:49									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I was still editing (forgot to turn on the convert->/<-to-gt/lt-macro)...

	19-01-2003 04:52									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We had a very good turnout BTW, IIRC 11 people... (And that on a Saturday night)

Last edited by Locutus on 19-01-2003 at 04:57

	19-01-2003 04:54									#49
	Support Apolyton

Ah yeah, I forgot they would be tags.

	19-01-2003 04:58									#50
	Got spare money?

Yeah. Of course, I could have disabled HTML in that post, but why bother if you have EditPlus?

	19-01-2003 05:00									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ugh apologies for my absence I was about to come a couple of hours ago but got dragged away. Ill start the poll.

	19-01-2003 05:05									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Can Pedrunn please post the savegame?

	19-01-2003 07:39									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

u saved the chat, wow

	19-01-2003 11:20									#54
	Tired of ads?

for those of us who don't own CtP2, could you post some screen shots so we too can see the world?

	20-01-2003 09:25									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Locutus No offense to Pedrunn, but can we impeach a Prez for incompetence?

I will defend myself now.

I am only one guy! Try to be the person who has to play the game, copy and edit screenshots, post the screenshots, write the current sitution data (gold, Pw, etc...), writting answers to the questions raised by the citizens, and you guys STILL wants me to read EVERYTHING ALL you guys wrote!!!!

It is just impossible although i try! And still this is not what caused the problem!

If something to blaim is either IW disappearing from the chat the time i asked or your impertinence that confused IW not to respond me because you had annoyed enough.

Here is the moment i asked if any proposal would be sent util the moment i ended the turn. I even asked twice and i cant see a feedback from IW about what to send. I thought i hadnt see but the log doesnt lie i did not got a answer from him!!!
Yes locutus, i know you said me to do it but you were NOT the minister of Diplomacy at that time. You were JUST a regular citizen.

quote: [22:33] <Pedrunn> will we send any other proposal? [22:33] * Dale agrees with Loc. 100 gold now, map exchange next turn. [22:33] <Locutus> no, pedrunn, just give gold. [22:34] <Pedrunn> Screen loaded [22:34] <HuangShang> k [22:34] <Locutus> interesting [22:34] <HuangShang> Turns to finish Warrior: 1?? [22:35] <Pedrunn> we have finish the warrior [22:35] <Locutus> huangshang: no, 5 (assuming we don't have any farmers) [22:35] <Pedrunn> thats why there are 2 in the map [22:35] <Pedrunn> no farmers [22:35] <Martin_G> city size? [22:36] <HuangShang> did their settler move? [22:36] <Locutus> +/- 2,500 (2) [22:36] <Pedrunn> we just reached 2 this turn [22:36] <Locutus> no, huang [22:36] <Pedrunn> their settler surprisinly did not moved [22:36] <mapfi> you ended the turn? [22:37] <Pedrunn> IW, Any proposal??? [22:37] <Locutus> ped, you sure? last time I checked the savegame it was already size 2 and that was last turn... [22:37] <Pedrunn> i was not that sure. So i will take your word locutus [22:37] <Martin_G> Probably the Settler is in the ZOC of our Warrior [22:37] <HuangShang> 3then does the warrior keep moving north? [22:37] <HuangShang> zoc? [22:37] <Pedrunn> warrior moves north as agreed here [22:38] <Locutus> we'll decide on that after Pedrunn ends the turn, Huang. diplomacy is up now... [22:38] <Martin_G> Yes the warrior should move North onto the river [22:38] <The-Gingerbread-Man> Laters [22:38] <Pedrunn> END TURN 12 [22:38] <mapfi> pedrunn - can you post the savegame after you ended this turn? [22:38] <Martin_G> ZOC: Zone Of Control [22:38] <Locutus> pedrunn, did you send a proposal? [22:38] <Pedrunn> no [22:38] <HuangShang> k [22:39] <Pedrunn> was i suppose to? [22:39] <Zephyr> y? [22:39] <Zephyr> AAAARGH!

So think about this and i am wrong if someone did not gave me the order to do so.

	20-01-2003 09:37									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I am not agry about not getting the maps exchanges after all i want since the beginning was war (read the newest story)

But i cant cross arms while someone defame me.

	20-01-2003 16:19									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well, Pedrunn the complaint we're making is that you did the diplomatic proposal the wrong way in turn 13!
While not giving the 100 gold in turn 12 is not entirely your fault, the incompetence in proposal making stands.

To make it clear: When you propose some exchange to a civilization, the setup of the proposal has to be first what you demand and then the offer in return, if you look at the screenshot you posted on page one - you did it the other way around.

As president you'll just have to put up with criticism, especially (but not only) justified criticism.
It didn't work, too bad - but it must not happen again, that's why we're telling you - no need to get offended.

	20-01-2003 16:43									#58
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by mapfi As president you'll just have to put up with criticism, especially (but not only) justified criticism. It didn't work, too bad - but it must not happen again, that's why we're telling you - no need to get offended.

The problem is that i was against sending gold to the Austrians since the beginning. And i could never know everybody didnt share my opinion. So i asked if we really wanted to send. Like you guys may have relize i consider myself a conquer player. I rather run for minister of defense. i like battle tactics rather than diplomacy dialogues. Sorry but you wrote the dialogue and any order from the Minister of Diplomacy was given. If i had act on my own with my criticism. We would still have the gold in our reserves and not give to the enemy.

quote: To make it clear: When you propose some exchange to a civilization, the setup of the proposal has to be first what you demand and then the offer in return, if you look at the screenshot you posted on page one - you did it the other way around.

Does this make a difference at all!?! I have heard this from infamous civ3er but i always thought it was defamation. I can believe it is true

	20-01-2003 16:55									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Does this make a difference at all!?! I have heard this from infamous civ3er but i always thought it was defamation. I can believe it is true

See! - that's actually the point we're talking about,
read Locutus' diplo guide he has linked to.

And the answer is yes - it does make a difference! (the one between accepting and declining...)
you can however comfort yourself with the knowledge that only a few here would have known this...

	20-01-2003 18:13									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

i would have known
maybe the president needs a greater staff to do his work? someone responsible for posting screenshots, someone for answering boring mails, someone to cook coffee etc.