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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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Investors Screwed Again Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Cold feet
Eliot Spitzer caved to Wall Street criminals. Maybe he decided that taking on the most powerful people in the country might not be the best strategy for a man considering a run for governor.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Arianna Huffington



Jan. 16, 2003 | To hear the media tell it, the headline-grabbing settlement agreement between crusading New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer and scandal-rotted Wall Street investment banks is a cause for investor celebration -- a towering, game-winning home run belted out of the park by the new Sultan of Shareholder Swat.

Actually, it's a boneheaded error. A botched play of Billy Buckner proportions.

Spitzer dropped the ball in so many ways, it's hard to know which to criticize first. Let's start with the fact that none of the flimflam men behind the high-level financial swindles will have to do any time behind bars. The settlement doesn't include the criminal indictment of a single person or institution. Even though Spitzer vowed to "restore integrity" to Wall Street and claims to have the goods on the banks and bosses, he suddenly developed a terminal case of ice-cold feet.

The sweetheart deal also slams the door on an investigation that had only begun to plumb the depths of Wall Street's nefarious ways. And, perhaps most galling of all, the settlement doesn't require any of the wrongdoers involved to admit any wrongdoing. This kid-glove treatment of Wall Street crooks provides a profound example of how we continue to operate under two vastly different sets of rules in this country -- one for a select group of elites and one for the rest of America.

When I asked Spitzer if he was concerned about this disparity, he replied: "While I would prefer to have a statement of wrongdoing, the firms never admit wrongdoing because it would drive them to bankruptcy." So? Isn't the genius of capitalism to let the free market -- not the attorney general of New York -- pick winners and losers depending on how they play the game? Break the rules, and you lose.

Professor Paul Lapides, director of the Corporate Governance Center at Kennesaw State University, describes the sleaze-geist thus: "I used to tell my students that if you commit a white-collar crime, the time will come when you will serve your time. Now I tell my students, if you commit a crime, commit a big one."

Lapides adds, "If you commit a big enough crime, you'll probably have to return only some of the money, and you won't have to do any jail time. Is America a great country or what?"

When common criminals are allowed to cop a plea, they plead guilty first as part of the bargain. Crooks in pinstripe suits, on the other hand, even those caught red-handed, don't have to come clean. It's the ultimate privilege -- and the ultimate insult to our intelligence. What good is finding a smoking gun if the guys who fired it are allowed to pay a small fine, step over the bloody body and reload?

Between them the 10 banks party to the settlement will have to cough up $900 million -- a drop in the bucket when you consider the billions in their collective annual profits, not to mention the hundreds of billions their scams cost investors.

In Time's hagiographic "Crusader of the Year" piece on him, Spitzer compared his efforts to those of a highway patrolman. "The cases against Wall Street are like stopping someone speeding on a highway," he says. "The other cars slow down for a while, and then, after a certain number of miles, they speed up again. The question is, How many miles before they start speeding again?"

The truth is, once Wall Street's lead-foots find out how cheap the ticket is they won't even bother slowing down at all. In fact, even as the final details of the settlement are being hammered out, the major investment firms continue to deliver glowing research reports about companies that also -- coincidentally, I'm sure -- just happen to be their banking clients.

So why did the heretofore heroic Spitzer, who previously dared to go where both the SEC and Congress feared to tread, settle for such a toothless settlement? Could it be that he finally bought into the Street's dire warnings that if he went too far, he'd torpedo the already sputtering U.S. economy? The theory being, I suppose, that fraud, deception and stock manipulation are essential elements of a thriving economy.

Or did Spitzer see how quickly Wall Street's moneymen turned their backs on Carl McCall's run for New York governor after he started digging into improprieties at Citigroup, and did he then decide that taking on some of the most powerful people in the country might not be the best strategy for a man considering a run for governor himself? It wouldn't be the first time that a would-be leader's reforming zeal lost out to the gradual process of capitulation to capital.

Whatever the reason for Spitzer's premature capitulation, the sad fact is that, despite his claim that it "will permanently change the way Wall Street works," the settlement will do next to nothing to eradicate the culture of greed, corruption and unethical behavior that has come to dominate Wall Street.

And until that happens we can't expect investors to truly put the scandals behind them and jump back into the market with both feet.

Sten Sture is offline Sten Sture
Emperor
SF, CA don't call it frisco... Striker!!
Mar 1999
time: 21:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 23:09 Visit Sten Sture's homepage!
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Truth is that it is really hard to prove that someone's "opinion" was biased instead of just stupid.

As these threads prove on a daily basis, facts are constantly subject to interpretation. Wall Street analysts are glorified tarrot card readers. Most of them don't really have any idea what direction a stock is going to move, and the ones that know for sure are the worst at getting it right.

Unfortunate, but this business is more about shoddy work than conspiracy to defraud.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 23:16
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The WSJ had a report on Spitzer. Apparantly he is arguing to go easier on Citigroup than what the NASD wants to do. And Citigroup is a big power in NY Democratic party.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 23:38 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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With all the business scandals from the last couple years you'd have thought that something would have been done. And it was. When it was time for our fearless leader to take action, he stepped up to the plate, and started making war noises about Iraq. . . . and it worked.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 23:52
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Actually, it's a boneheaded error. A botched play of Billy Buckner proportions.


Beantowners are going to love this.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 23:57 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu
Beantowners are going to love this.


I remember all my Boston "Buddies" calling me when Leo Durham let a ball go through his legs and cost the Cubs a shot at going to the World Series.
They all said something like... "Billy Buckner wouldn't have let that ball go through"...

Revenge was really a dish best served cold when I was able to "return the favor" years later

Ozz is offline Ozz
Chieftain
Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 17-01-2003 23:58
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They screw themselves by buying into the stock market.

Everyone knows it's a con game. Big interest if you don't
get burnt.

The Chinese were right when they ran the stockbrokers
out of their country.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 00:03 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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Well, as I write this the Dow is down 130 points or so ...

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Well, as I write this the Dow is down 130 points or so ...


And tomorrow it will be up 150. And so on.

People who watch daily returns of the stock market are sheople. CNBC is for lightweights.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 00:11 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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thats the way the capitialism crumbles.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 00:16 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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Well, GP, I suppose I should stop glancing down a few times a day at the crawl on the bottom of *all* the cable news networks, eh? Would that help the economy? Or maybe I could help the economy by not watching cable news networks ...

Gatekeeper

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 09:42
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
People who watch daily returns of the stock market are sheople. CNBC is for lightweights.


Are you for real, GP?

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Are you for real, GP?


yes?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 14:11
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Chigitz: Your a communist who's worried about the well fare capitalist users of the people?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 22:45 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I'm worried about the welfare of all people. 1) Just because someone's a member of the oppressor class doesn't mean they shouldn't receive justice. 2) Many union pension funds are tired up in the market and were looted by these criminals. 3) Corporate crime effects us all far more than random street crime does.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 18-01-2003 23:01
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I'm worried about the welfare of all people. 1) Just because someone's a member of the oppressor class doesn't mean they shouldn't receive justice. 2) Many union pension funds are tired up in the market and were looted by these criminals. 3) Corporate crime effects us all far more than random street crime does.


You're just a weak fellow traveller. You will be liquidated, come the revolution.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 09:58 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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You wouldn't know a real commie if he came up and expropriated your nose.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozz
They screw themselves by buying into the stock market.

Everyone knows it's a con game. Big interest if you don't
get burnt.

The Chinese were right when they ran the stockbrokers
out of their country.


Spoken like somebody with a flawed investment strategy if I ever heard one.

And GP is right - stock ticker watching is for sheep or speculators... and I bet most people who watch them are sheep.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You wouldn't know a real commie if he came up and expropriated your nose.


As long as he has cross-hairs on him, doesn't see the scope and there's a warshot in the tube, he's a good commie to me.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 10:19
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT


Spoken like somebody with a flawed investment strategy if I ever heard one.

And GP is right - stock ticker watching is for sheep or speculators... and I bet most people who watch them are sheep.


If you are really worried about stock scams, just buy a diversified portfolio. That way no single stock will drag you down. And the overall risk of ethics problems (should be) included in the price of the market.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 10:24
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So weak that you'd resort to violence...tsk tsk tsk...

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 11:06
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"If you are really worried about stock scams, just buy a diversified portfolio. "

And if you're really scared, make sure that portfolio isn't all in stocks.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 11:07
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And if you don't want a crapshoot, don't invest in stocks in the first place.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 11:11
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If you know what you're doing, it isn't a crapshoot.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 19-01-2003 11:14
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that's the big joke isn't it...

This whole medical malpractice reform thing is about expert investors getting f*cked. The insurance companies that have these high premiums are doing so because they invest 75% of their profits in the market. And last time I checked, it wasn't doing so hot. The average amount of payouts for lawsuits has only increased slightly in the past 4 years, yet the premiums the insurance companies are charging doctors have risen considerably.

This whole medical reform crap is not about excessive jury awards, its about a bunch of dumbass greed-driven insurance companies trying to make up for their own investing woes.

"If you know what you're doing, it isn't a crapshoot."

famous last words...

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