18-01-2003 02:28									#1
	Strat Forum PBEM: Game 3 Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Please note that this game is now officially closed. If a game like this one interests you, please post on the 'Apolyton University PBEM' thread in the Strategy forum. You'll surely find a few other interested players.

Players:

In order of play:

Sir Ralph; Ottomans
Nor Me; Americans
jshelr; Chinese
Dominae; Carthaginians
alexman; French
DaveMcW; Egyptians

Settings:

World Size: Standard
Land Mass: Continents
Water Coverage: Normal
Climate, Temperature, Age: All normal
Barbarians: Restless

Rules: Default
Players: 6 human
Difficulty: Emperor

Game Version: PTW 1.14, AU MP mod, version 1.00

Last edited by Dominae on 19-01-2003 at 07:09

	18-01-2003 03:09									#2
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Should we include AI civs? I have never played an MP game with AI present, so I don't know how it is.

How about this: 5 human players, 10 AI players, Huge, Continents, (or 4/8/Large), culturally linked starts on, with each one of us choosing a different cultural group. This way we would hopefully all get some AI players to kill!

	18-01-2003 03:13									#3
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I'm interested but:

1. I've never played before.

2. I now realise my choices for map settings and civs are suspiciously identical to those you suggested in game 1 (perhaps I might put the Iroquois ahead of the Aztecs.)

Still, until I get a job, I will certainly have the time.
Where have I seen that avatar before?

	18-01-2003 03:20									#4
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alexman, I like your idea: SP civ as we know it, but a few Killer AIs (i.e. humans) thrown in to the mix. I prefer the 4/8/large option, personally.

Nor Me, no need to worry about not having played PBEM before, it's easy and fun. How does alexman's suggestion sound to you? Oh, and if you're referring to my avatar, it's a picture from a Magic card (seemed like a good source of pictures until I get a hold of the avatar I really want to use).


Dominae

	18-01-2003 03:48									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Oh, and if you're referring to my avatar, it's a picture from a Magic card (seemed like a good source of pictures until I get a hold of the avatar I really want to use).

I thought so but I don't know which one.

I wouldn't mind AIs. I know how play against them .
Preferably not Deity level ones though. Large or huge is fine but I might have to find a non-American group civ I could play on them.
I'd prefer a pangea since with AIs continents could easily give someone a large advantage/disadvantage.

	18-01-2003 04:00									#6
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Ok, here are my preferences:

World Size: Large
Land Mass: Normal
Water Coverage: Normal
Climate, Temperature, Age: All normal
Barbarians: Restless

Rules: Default (includes Culturally-linked starts)
Players: 4 human, 8 AI
Difficulty: Emperor

Game Version: PTW 1.14, AU mod.

Civ choices in order of preference: Carthaginians, Aztecs, Zulus.


Assuming everyone agrees on the game type as suggested by alexman, we should be ready to begin shortly.

Nor Me, the card is 'Icy Manipulator'.

Dominae

	18-01-2003 04:05									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Since 2 of my PBEM games are almost dead (including our Minitourney PBEM ), I'd play too, if alexman doesn't refuse to play with the bloodthirsty barbarian...

	18-01-2003 04:18									#8
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Ok, welcome Sir Ralph! Basically we have the same group as Strat PBEM 1, but with Nor Me added in. Nor Me, we usually play 3-4 turns per day, so you might need to get used to our fast pace!

Please post your preferences to confirm you want to play this PBEM, and I'll get someone to set up our map.


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 18-01-2003 at 04:54

	18-01-2003 04:19									#9
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I would like China, America, or France in that order.

I'd be very excited to have you, SR, in which case we should play on a huge map.

By the way, I kind of like having continents, (or even archipelago) so the AI don't instantly put us all in contact with each other.

	18-01-2003 04:29									#10
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I second alexman, concerning continents or archipelago, if playing with the AI.

	18-01-2003 04:35									#11
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Post first. Think later. I'd play continents. I suppose inequality is part of the idea.

I'll confirm America, Iroquois, Aztecs, Emperor, AU MOD, GMT, wait for a random hotmail adress, only the Ice Age version .

If were playing an archipelago, I've chosen the wrong civs.

	18-01-2003 04:51									#12
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Ok, I've updated the initial post. I've put the map size at Large because that's my preference (Huge maps favor Expanionist a little too much, and this is a PBEM game after all, so completing a Huge game will take forever). If you want different map size, please say so.

quote: wait for a random hotmail adress

What does this mean, Nor Me?


Dominae

	18-01-2003 05:08									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The problem with a large map with 5 players is that we get just over 1 AI civ each. Some will get two, some will get one. With a huge map it will be more balanced.

If you leave it up to the map generator, you usually get 4 out of 5 cultural groups when you start a large game. You get 5/5 with a huge one. So if we each choose a different cultural group, we will be naturally placed nicely apart, among AI civs.

How about reducing the value of expansionists by playing a huge archipelago with maximum water? Less land will also shorten the game.

[Edit: also, are we playing the AU MP mod, or the standard one? I vote for the MP one, since it adds to the game without seriously handicapping the AI. We don't expect to fight killer AIs in this game, after all.]

	18-01-2003 05:20									#14
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I'd like to join if you still have room. I would love a game with 2+ turns a day.

Egypt, Persia, Iroquois

Last edited by DaveMcW on 18-01-2003 at 05:33

	18-01-2003 05:27									#15
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Playing a huge map with maximum water is a good idea, and the AU MP mod is just fine with me.

My choice: Ottomans, Japanese, Germans

	18-01-2003 05:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Nor Me, we usually play 3-4 turns per day, so you might need to get used to our fast pace!

Not a problem.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae What does this mean, Nor Me?

Just don't worry about it. Everything will be alright.

From what I've seen the AU MP mod should not be too different to the standard one.
I'd prefer continents but am happy with smallest landmass.

	18-01-2003 05:42									#17
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Welcome DaveMcW; since we're agreeing on playing a Huge map, there is definitely room for another.

Edited first post again, to reflect new developments. If you wish to switch your civ preferences in response to the fact that we're playing a Huge map with Continents, now is a good time to do so.


Dominae

	18-01-2003 06:06									#18
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I need everyone's opinion on some things:

We now have 6 players. There are 5 cultural groups. Thus, two players will most likely be close to one another, while the others will be free to "exploit" their nearest AIs. I see this as being a problem.

Possible solutions: 1) remove a player (DaveMcW was the last to sign up, although jshelr still has not confirmed his position yet), or 2) play on different map settings.

I prefer the second option. The main idea with playing Continents was that we could not meet one another so quickly. On reflection, I do not see this as a problem. It would actually call for a game with far more strategy. In this case, it would also not be necessary to play a Huge map, which I think is impractical for PBEM; by the time we all meet each other, many of us will have quit this game already (a harsh reality).

So, I'm for: 5 humans, 7 AIs, Pangea (as before).


Dominae

	18-01-2003 06:08									#19
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Since we are now 6, and there are only 5 cultural groups, we might have to trash the cultural linkage and have someone else take a look at the map to make it's even. (Otherwise the two people who pick the same group will know that they're near each other).

Also, the first post says we'll use AU mod 1.15, which is the SP version. Let's use the AU MP mod v1.00 instead.

One other thing. I'm going on a ski trip and won't have access to Civ from tomorrow morning until Monday evening. I'd prefer to play my turn, but if you want to start without me, go ahead. You can have the person who sets up the map play my turn.

	18-01-2003 06:10									#20
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X-posted with you, Dominae. I'm assuming you mean 6 humans, 6 AIs.

I still like the continents idea, even if we play on a large map instead of huge. Just turn off cultural linkage so we don't know who starts next to whom.

	18-01-2003 06:11									#21
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I don't mind taking a European civ to even out the groups. But I guess I'll wait for jshelr to kick me out first.

	18-01-2003 06:14									#22
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Turning off cultural-linkage is another option. I think this is the best one, assuming we can find someone to generate the map for us and make sure everything is balanced (for instance, there's no way I'm starting next to bloodthirsty alexman or Sir Ralph!).


Dominae

	18-01-2003 06:22									#23
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I don't think we need to worry about fairness in this game. It will not be completely fair anyway, unless we make the map symmetric. The purpose of the AU is to see how much you can do with what you've got.

One more thing. If we play with cultural linkage off, my preferences become reversed:
French/Americans/Chinese.

	18-01-2003 15:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae (for instance, there's no way I'm starting next to bloodthirsty alexman or Sir Ralph!).

If I was bloodthirsty, I would be the Aztecs and not the French. I'm being ganged up against and to sit in my hole like a rabbit and to wait till it pleases my enemies to attack me with their superior UUs is just not my style.

	18-01-2003 18:17									#25
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Sign me up please. How about China, unless I'm next to Ralph. Then I want to be Carthage or Greece.

I have not read the thread yet, but I've got no problem with six players if everyone can respond multiple times during a day

By the way, with a group this size, my recommendation would be to go all random and let the chips fall where they may. We are taking on a large committment of time and effort here. Good luck all.

Last edited by jshelr on 18-01-2003 at 19:10

	18-01-2003 20:15									#26
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Edited the first post again. Everyone is signed up, and (presumably) ready to go. I want to stress that we should endeavour to play as many turns as possible in any given day (Strat PBEM game 1 is exemplary). I'm sure we all have RLs, but I'm just hoping for a certain level of commitment to this game.

Thanks for joining, and let's have fun!

I'm going to try and get BRC to set up this game for us; he did a pretty good job on AU203 (I'll ask him to reduce the "evil genius" factor on this one). We should be ready to go soon.


Dominae


P.S: I'm surprised the only real warmonger civ among our first picks is China. Are we seeing a new trend in MP play?

	18-01-2003 20:28									#27
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"I'm surprised the only real warmonger civ among our first picks is China."

I resemble that remark

	18-01-2003 20:57									#28
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Industrious is definitely the trait of choice.

Playing a "warmonger civ" makes diplomacy harder. Good luck jshelr.

	19-01-2003 00:05									#29
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Guys. Things are going good, except....

Aren't you only allowed to have 8 civs in MP games??

If this is true, you guys need to discuss settings again, or at least tell me to take out some of the AI's.

If this is false, someone please tell me how to get the game to allow 12 civs to play PBEM.

Thanks.

	19-01-2003 00:19									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Quite right BRC. Here are the alternatives:

1. One game, 6 humans, 2 Deity AIs.

2. One game, 6 humans, no AI.

3. Two games, 3 humans, 3 Emperor AI in each.

4. Two games, 4 humans, 4 Emperor AI in each.


The last two options seem best to me, because the turns will go faster and alexman's idea remains intact (AIs and humans). Ideally we find 2 more players and implement number 4. What do you guys think?


Dominae