18-01-2003 04:21									#1
	Pre-poll discussion - German War Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As I stated in my campaign for SMC, I will ask of the nation to state their preferences and opinions regarding how far we take the war into the heart of Germany.

We have several options available to us:

1.) We take all of Germany, leaving no trace left of the German Empire other than the workers and nationals remaining.

2.) We continue the war until a certain objective is secure; for example, capturing all German cities up until Nurembourg (which we of course could lower the population and flip chance by bombarding it down to a very low population)

3.) We end the war now, or very soon.

More options and decisions I encourage the Senate to discuss....

Meshelic
SMC Elect

	18-01-2003 05:37									#2
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Our original intention was to remove Germany as a threat to our domination of the scientific arena. With that objective achieved, we can end the war.
We may want to capture a few more German cities (e.g. as Meshelic suggested, all the cities up until Nuremburg) and/or inflict more losses upon the German armies, before we end this war. I for one am leaning in favor of option #2, but I'll wait for the senate to voice its opinions before I make any official decisions on this matter.

	18-01-2003 05:45									#3
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Keep in mind that we are now at war with the Japanese as well too.

	18-01-2003 06:42									#4
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We can get Breman in the peace deal...

	18-01-2003 07:18									#5
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We should at least take/raze and rebuild leipzig. We have plenty of units there already and we have the Japan war to help wih War Weariness for 5 more turns. We need to wait for MPP's to expire anyhow....

	18-01-2003 07:29									#6
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan We should at least take/raze and rebuild leipzig. We have plenty of units there already and we have the Japan war to help wih War Weariness for 5 more turns. We need to wait for MPP's to expire anyhow....

	18-01-2003 07:33									#7
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I say we take all of germany simply because at this stage ww will be too high to finish out the alliance easily. So we should try to finish them quickly.
Aggie

	18-01-2003 07:47									#8
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We simply need to continue against Germany until the alliances end in 1370 or they are eliminated, whichever comes first.

	18-01-2003 07:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by roadcage We simply need to continue against Germany until the alliances end in 1370 or they are eliminated, whichever comes first.

This is the sensible option, in my opinion.

(I seem to agree with roadcage a lot, even when everyone else disagrees )

	18-01-2003 07:58									#10
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Heck no! We won't go! :hippy:

	18-01-2003 08:03									#11
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I hereby order Thud be sent to the front of the Front....and put an officer's hat on him for those German sharpshooters....

Damn hippies! hehe

j/k

	18-01-2003 08:26									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic I hereby order Thud be sent to the front of the Front....and put an officer's hat on him for those German sharpshooters.... Damn hippies! hehe j/k

Unfortunately, due to Thud's rather senior age as a citizen of Apolyton, he couldn't pass the physical for military service.

He's also a Senator, which exempts him from the draft

	18-01-2003 08:32									#13
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quote: Keep in mind that we are now at war with the Japanese as well too.

The Japaneese war, while not as phoney as the Zulu war, is phoney none the less.

Me thinks that Shaka is pleased with this development because he has heard rumors of our boat building campaign and wants to get himself off of the top of our enemies list.

	18-01-2003 08:45									#14
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I dunno, is SMC a civilian or military title? If military, then as former SMC I can still be activated as part of the reserves. If civilian, then Mesh has no authority to activate or order officers around. Either way, I'm exempt.

You know, most of us are probably no more than piles of dust. We're probably all dead and don't realize it yet, so we continue to think that we're still Senators. No wonder nobody has called for Senate elections the past couple hundred years

	18-01-2003 08:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Thud I dunno, is SMC a civilian or military title? If military, then as former SMC I can still be activated as part of the reserves. If civilian, then Mesh has no authority to activate or order officers around. Either way, I'm exempt. You know, most of us are probably no more than piles of dust. We're probably all dead and don't realize it yet, so we continue to think that we're still Senators. No wonder nobody has called for Senate elections the past couple hundred years

For the same reason the RP team has debated the same issue regarding our characters, it's just more sensible to keep our personae around for centuries than to constantly be resurrecting new characters.

As for you and being pulled away to war, no government in its right mind would allow its Senators to be dragged off to military service on the front lines. Members and officials of the government are exempt from military service (unless they quit to go join the military).

That said, there are precedents throughout RL history of Senators or other legislators of various historical legislatures running off to be politician-generals in wars (to gain fame and hero status) while still retaining their seats in the legislature (though not sitting in them while on campaigns).

As for you, specifically, I fully expect that you resigned your commission (or are free to do so at any time) and are safety retired as well as being a member of the Senate (and thus exempt already).

So no worries, you can be as much of a hippy as you want to be. God knows a lot of other retired generals have done the same in RL

	18-01-2003 09:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by roadcage We simply need to continue against Germany until the alliances end in 1370 or they are eliminated, whichever comes first.

Couldn't have said it better myself. (And I probably would have said it a lot worse. )

	18-01-2003 09:39									#17
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I agree, we only need to work on Lepzig and the MPP's will be over (3 turns from now). With 1 turn to move all the Arts into Position, and 2 turns pounding Lepzig, we can take it and leave Germany to the rest of our Allies.

IF Germany Survives to the end of this War, we won't have to worry about any Panzers, as they will not have the capability to produce enough of them to bother us. It will be like that resent Japanese Threat, we Yawn at their attempts, then kill them for their insolance.

So what if Germany does survive, we can out produce them with just 3 of our 50 Cities. They would die a quick death, if they did.

E_T

	18-01-2003 11:49									#18
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quote: Originally posted by E_T IF Germany Survives to the end of this War, we won't have to worry about any Panzers, as they will not have the capability to produce enough of them to bother us. It will be like that resent Japanese Threat, we Yawn at their attempts, then kill them for their insolance. E_T

Sounds like a solid plan to me...

And Thud take no heed of my threats, although I doubt you did at all. I would not send one of our Senators to do battle (except for maybe Donegeal who seems to crave the stuff of war; he's even still wearing his ancient knight's battle armor!).

You are safe from being conscipted...

	18-01-2003 16:42									#19
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Okay back on topic. I will post an "opinion" poll (not a Bill mind you) for suggestion by the Senate on how to carry out our war effort into Germany, complete with options.

Speaking of which, are there any particular options beyond my original statements that anyone would care to see posted?

So far it will be

Yay
Nay
Abstain

on 1. Overrun and capture all of Germany
2. Stop fighting after we reach a certain goal, such as a strategic resource (all they have is iron now, I think), or just before a particular city? (like Nurembourg)
3. Peace now!

any other choices you'd all like to see posted there?

	18-01-2003 17:32									#20
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The game is nearly over. We are going to win. Now lets, just for a second, imagine we want to get it overwith and go for a Diplomatic victory. All civs still around get to pick one of the top two civs. The top two civ right now, is Japan and us. If we leave Germany around, who do you think Otto would vote for? Leaving the Germans around hinders our efforts to win the game in a timely manor.

FINISH OTTO!

	18-01-2003 20:51									#21
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal The game is nearly over. We are going to win. Now lets, just for a second, imagine we want to get it overwith and go for a Diplomatic victory. All civs still around get to pick one of the top two civs. The top two civ right now, is Japan and us. If we leave Germany around, who do you think Otto would vote for? Leaving the Germans around hinders our efforts to win the game in a timely manor. FINISH OTTO!

	19-01-2003 00:27									#22
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I may not even have to post a poll if a very blatant majority of people here wish us to finish Otto off....

	19-01-2003 00:42									#23
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WE have 8 more turns of war (minimum) due to our alliances. We are commited for the duration of teh treaties to fight (or at least be at war). We need to continualy press the germans hard, taking every city possible untill then ... If we still have one or two turns after the alliances expire to finish them off, by all means lets do it. It will be a drop in the bucket. Anabanana Major will be a better place without Germany.

I do support making peace with Rome within the next 4 or 5 turns (after canceling the MPPs). This should help bolster our forces against any annoying Japanese.

Mss

[edit] grammar and spelling

	19-01-2003 00:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic I may not even have to post a poll if a very blatant majority of people here wish us to finish Otto off....

You certainly don't need to post a poll, but it wouldn't hurt.