18-01-2003 10:57									#1
	Lethal bombardments? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What do you think of making bombardments lethal, like CIV2?
So far in my personal mod I have made the Hwacha lethal, so it could start a golden age.

Last edited by HolyWarrior on 18-01-2003 at 11:02

	18-01-2003 16:24									#2
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There was no bombardment in Civ2 right?

	18-01-2003 17:44									#3
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Very few units should get lethal bombard. Hwacha would be a good choice so they can get the GA (but, having tried this, in the hands of a human player it is unbalanced as the AI still won't move these from his cities). Ship to ship could be lethal. Fighter to ship should be lethal. Ship to ground and air to ground, in general, should not.

	18-01-2003 21:33									#4
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I agree with Warpstorm for the most part. Bombing and bombarding ground units should not be lethal. Bombing and possibly bombarding naval units should be lethal. Cruise missiles should be lethal to naval units (it usually takes several missiles to sink a ship anyway).

	19-01-2003 02:07									#5
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect There was no bombardment in Civ2 right?

True, there was no bombardment as in CIV3, but in CIV2 cannon and catapult could kill enemy units. This is what I meant.

	20-01-2003 07:23									#6
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Since the AI doesn't use bombardment effectively - namely only to destroy improvements and seldom on attackers - lethal bombardment would significantly imbalance the SP game. Unless the AI could be coaxed to hit my plies of Artillery and Infantry in the late game while my cavalry and tanks are healing on their turf with Battlefield Med, the argument FOR lethal bombardment just doesn't work.

In a MP game tho, I might even be encouraged to build a catapult - something I never do otherwise : )

	20-01-2003 16:02									#7
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I agree and disagree with you, Warpstorm. Most disagree. If we look at the history, canons, artilleries and planes have wiped out enimies in great number. The most recent must have been the US bombardment of Afganistan. Thousands of people died after been plane-bombed. Big Bertha in WW1 was a feared weapon and several ships were sunk by planes during WW2.

In my current personal mod, canons and above have lethal land bombardment including all planes. Battleships and AEGIS cruisers as well.

Yes, it's correct that the AI doens't used bombardment very well against other units. In fact I've never seen an AI with a lot of artillery. When I have researched replacable parts and go to war, it's normally with at least 5-10 artys against each city I want to conquer. I've never seen the AI do that...

	01-02-2003 05:34									#8
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C'mon all, I'm looking for some good responses here.

	01-02-2003 06:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MoonWolf The most recent must have been the US bombardment of Afganistan. Thousands of people died after been plane-bombed.

Excellent example... of where the most advanced and deadly air force on the planet could not destroy ground units. They still had to send in the grunts to mop up.

I agree that fighters should be lethal against ships though.

	01-02-2003 07:58									#10
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Heck, siege engines (catapaults, cannons, et. al.) are all ultimately descended from anti-personnel weapons. From a realism standpoint (I'm leaving my yap shut on balance), it's hard to argue that bombardment should never be lethal. Never? Bah.

How about this? Bombardment can kill a unit, but only if the unit is already on its last hit point. Before then, bombardment rules apply as they are now. For ground units, the chances to remove that last hit point are lower, particularly with the usual defensive enhancements in place (radar towers, civil defense, walls, hills, etc.). For ship units, the chances are the same.

Oh yeah, and any air unit that can't fly Air Superiority missions can be destroyed in one hit by bombardment.

	01-02-2003 18:27									#11
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hi ,

we should need something like dual type of bombardment , a stealth bomber can bomb without hitting the building next door but it can carry also large area bombs that blast the whole neigborhood , this should be reflected , .....

, regular bombing is lethal for the stealth and presision is not , ......

there are many cases inwhere this dual use could be used , .....

have a nice day

	03-02-2003 21:55									#12
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Just as soon as patch 1.21f (I think it was) came out that allowed Lethal Bombardment, I enabled it on all bombard-type units.

I just couldn't see a spearman getting hit by a huge stone thrown from a catapult and not dying.

As far as balance, well, I might make a few canons, but don't really get started making bombard units until Artillery comes along. By this point in the game, I am either decidedly ahead of the AI (in which case the lethality only speeds-up the inevetable), or I'm so far behind that I need it to try and catch up.

On a personal note: I once got 3 GL's from bombarding Battleships that stopped too close to my shores. Unfortunately, I was behind in techs and couldn't build any wonders or more Armys so I used them to rush Libraries or something so mundane as to almost make it painful.

	04-02-2003 06:12									#13
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Tactical bombers only (Fighters, Jet FIghters and Stl. FIghters).

To make them different.
They are in fact tactical bombers.
(capable of destoying smaller foramtions)

P.S.
Of course in this case they should still have bomb Str and ROF lower then bombers which are strategical bombers.
(but at least Fighters and Jets should get their ROF upped to value of 2 compared to standard rules)

	04-02-2003 16:35									#14
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quote: Originally posted by steven8r Just as soon as patch 1.21f (I think it was) came out that allowed Lethal Bombardment, I enabled it on all bombard-type units. I just couldn't see a spearman getting hit by a huge stone thrown from a catapult and not dying. As far as balance, well, I might make a few canons, but don't really get started making bombard units until Artillery comes along. By this point in the game, I am either decidedly ahead of the AI (in which case the lethality only speeds-up the inevetable), or I'm so far behind that I need it to try and catch up. On a personal note: I once got 3 GL's from bombarding Battleships that stopped too close to my shores. Unfortunately, I was behind in techs and couldn't build any wonders or more Armys so I used them to rush Libraries or something so mundane as to almost make it painful.

hi ,

, next time try to save those GL's a bit before you use them like that , .....

have a nice day