16-01-2001 02:25									#1
	help with Domai when behind Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have had good luck winning my random faction, double-blind transcend games but I may need some tips to pull this one out.


THE HISTORY


I started as Domai on a large, large continent(Random planet-- standard size-- random opponents. I pacted with the conciousness who would not trade tech and very soon there was a cult onslaught on Aki. Perhaps to my detriment, I did not/ could not save AKI and merely marshalled my forces until I could rover rush the cult. This took time and there was a time when 2 of my bases were in danger (*%#$ mindworms).

As it stands there are 4 factions left

Me -- Domai with 24 cities and loads of infrastructure/military. All cities are well defended and are inside a sensor screen to detect approaching probes (except seabases but I have never seen the AI build probe skimships)

University --about 10 cities and probably 10-12 techs ahead.--they have all the SPs except WP and do have fusion power but the best armor I have "seen" is 3. I never managed to infiltrate them < hangs head in shame>

Roze -- 2 cities and 2 techs I don't have-- Vendetta since I took her seabase.

Peacekeepers-- 1 City

THE STRATEGY

I had a horde of probe skimships in development when the University got the Hunter Seeker. I recently got 2 more AAs and now have 5 AAs in storage . My original plan was to trade/probe my way up the tech tree and then do a sudden tech boom by cashing a couple of pods at once.

Now my assessment is that if I do not kick some university butt real soon his tech lead will kill me. So my current plan is to start building missle skimships and troops and use my 2-1 advantage in # of bases ( and a current +3 in industry) to overwhelm even just 3 or 4 of his bases. I would settle to take only one base-- the one with the Hunter seeker in it. waiting to get algorithmic enhancements on my own does not seem like much of a practical option.

My plan
-- immediately cash all my AAs for whatever tech boost it brings.
-- maximize morale and probe ratings
-- set every base producing units and go utterly and completely to war.
-- maximize cash and forget science (rush-build frequently)
--- aim to take or simply raze half his cities
-- use nerve gas if necessary, since the other factions are at vendetta anyway and are almost irrelevant


Other options include

1. Expansion -- I am the biggest in terms of territory and I have a large landmass to expand into-- I may devote one base to sending out colony pods with 2 impact rovers for company

2. Making nice ?? I don't see this as an option where I am #2 on the charts and the University is RACING up the charts but I will trade anything with Roze to get the two techs she has that I do not (before cashing the AAs)

3. Going for a tech race-- I just got the knowledge tech so research could be increased but isn't this ALWAYS a losing proposition against the University despite my more numerous bases

So there you have it-- I don't believe I have handled this game particularly well and find Domai even further behind in tech than usual. Is there anything else to do other than total war?

Any hints and tips would be appreciated. --- Remember this is double-blind so I can't beeline to anything.

	16-01-2001 03:30									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hey man, and a good game, from the sounds of it! If it was me, I'd hang on to those AA's at least in the short term, but definately proceed with the all-out war that you've outlined. You've got twice the number of bases he has, and a LOT more productivity thanks to your heinous industrial might. Crank out a horde or three of the best troops you've got and hammer the base with the HSA until it falls. Don't think about the losses you're taking, cos more than likely you'll take a LOT of losses, but the upshot is, once you get the HSA away from him, you'll be able to get to almost instant tech pairity if you build a big supply of probes to bring with you on the attack. The turn after the base falls, fan out in all directions and probe him for all he's worth! Then, immediately upgrade your defending troops to fusion reactors and you'll stop taking such frightful losses.

Sounds like you've already got him on the ropes though....twice as many bases, and an industry that he can't touch. Once the HSA base is in your hands, his chief advantage is gone (immunity to your probes), and all that should be left is the mop-up.

Just make sure though, that when you move against him, you bring an overwhelming number of troops, cos if he's got a better reactor type than you, the only way you'll beat him is with swarm.

Also, if you're not actively at war with him yet, you might want to build a TON of probe foils and just park them in and around his coastal bases....that way, when you take his HSA base, you can start the probe-onslaught the same turn, and possibly upgrade your surviving troops right then and there (depending on what techs you get).

-=Vel=-

	16-01-2001 04:14									#3
	Got spare money?

I aggree with Vel except for the minor issue, that I wouldn't even concentrate too much on the single base which holds the HSA...

Just simply wipe him out

You've got a huge industry advantage (twice the number of bases PLUS your faster industry), so make troops and kill'im.

	16-01-2001 04:21									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah, I think the best thing to do would be to hit him fast, and hit him hard. With +3 industry, you shouldn't have a problem outnumbering him - even then the AI ineptitude is easily overcome by a bit of astute thinking

Once the HSA has gone, it should be easy. And remember, he won't be able to mind control the base straight back....so the rest should be plain sailing. Just make sure you have enough troops - nothing is worse than losing them piecemeal.

	16-01-2001 18:32									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks gang-- you confirmed what I thought- 1 swarm of missle skimships, missle squads and missle rovers coming right up!! ( and transports and probes)

One question Vel-- I often "save" AAs on the theory that it is a waste to use them other than for techs the AI factions don't have. I love probing/trading to parity and then tech-booming to next generation weapons or grabbing a whole bunch of the mid-game SPs(probably got the idea from you). I am still pondering keeping them this time but thought that cashing 5 of them (after begging, borrowing or stealing the two techs that Roze has) might result in getting either the chaos weapon tech or fusion and greatly swing the battle. With the darn tech lotto theres no telling what I'll get but there are lots of other useful techs possible as well.

Since there are no other threats if I handle the university, what would I save them for? If I take the HSA and probe him to death I can then cash them for a tech lead and an even quicker victory but given the industrial capacity situation I can crush him now if I get fusion. I am just asking since my usual inclination is to save them but the big picture here is if I can crack one base and hold it for even a turn-- the game is mine. Any thoughts (from anyone)??

	16-01-2001 19:11									#6
	Support Apolyton

Good point 'bout Zak being your only real competition....I guess I was thinking in terms of "after the fight." If you take the HSA base, and then probe him, you'll net yourself a scad of new techs, which will bring you up to par with him to finish the fight, and once you twist Zak's arm to get every last tech he's got, you'll be that much closer to a Transcendent victory when you cash your AA's in.

Of course, you're quite right. At this point, you can win militarily just by braining Zak, and if that's the plan, then cash 'em in, hope for Chaos and/or Fusion, and bust him all the harder!

-=Vel=-

	16-01-2001 19:50									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

CBN,

A rush at this points sounds to be the ticket 'specially if all he has at the time is plasma armor. Question tho' is spoils o' war enabled? If so your tech parity via probe actions (after HSA base captured) may be moot as you may gain the techs via conquest.

If Spoils are off then target HSA base, continue with your conqest but make sure you have probe teams in place to gain all techs you possibly can during the conquest. Don't lose the opportunity presented to gain the techs whilst you can at the expense of over running him into the ground. After you've cleaned himout of all techs I would agree then appears to be the time to cash in those AA's.

Alternatively you can press the conquest to the point of making him a submissive thereby having him surrender his techs to you. (Make sure you run knowledge). The submission route of course means you'll forgo gassing him into oblivion. Your choice of course.

Good luck and good hunting

Og

	17-01-2001 15:10									#8
	Support Apolyton

The writers before me just said a lot that seems to be very right, but I will add my opinion. I know this situation very well from my own games, because I play under similar conditons (blind tech, randam AI factions). Playing against a faction with the HSA can be real PIA.
I see three possible strategies.

1. crawlers! Use them to boost your production and energy income, and you will sooner or later pass Zak in the tech race.

2. Parasitic transcendece! Build a lot of those nice expensive armoured rover-crawlers and let Zak build the Voice of Planet! Grin!

3. Planet-buster the HSA-base and probe Zak! Evil Grin!

	17-01-2001 20:40									#9
	Got spare money?

One last thing.

Do you have a realistic shot at becoming planetary guv'nur? If so do what ever possible (bribe etc) to become the guv'nur in order to gain infiltration data on Zak. That alone may be the best source of data you have to determine if and when to strike and where. Also take a look at his tech discovery rate. If you are surpassing him in turns/tech advance maybe this may play into your thought process as well. It sounds as if you have him in terms of population but with empath guild on his side it may be difficult to gain the needed votes. In fact if you feel lucky you may want to take a probe team or two and frame Zak for a probe action (hopefully the next biggest faction) merely to make sure you've got a voting friend (be careful it doesn't backfire tho' so go fundy for a turn or two whilst doing your probe action even so this may be risky).

Good luck

Og

	18-01-2001 18:53									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Hi guys

Skanderbeg-- good suggestions for later but at the time of my last post I had neither Industrial Auto nor orbital whatever for PBs. I do have them now

Ogie-- I so wanted to become governor but the Uni had the Empath guild so although I had him about 2-1 in cities, the guild balanced this and he was slightly larger pop in his cities so I was about 10 votes behind. Neither Roze nor Lal would even talk to me as we stay in vendetta except to declare their desire to crush me. My rep was faithful and I was running Demo/Planned/ nothing at the time.

More generally

Since Roze would not talk trade or accept gifts I finally said heck with it and went Fundy. I actually probed away three techs from her (that felt really good) and took a seabase. I then cashed all my AAs netting air power so I delayed invasion plans while building aerocomplexes. Since then I have popped and cashed 2 more AAs and taken two fairly new Uni seabases. Since spoils of war are ON I got techs that way as well. I got chaos, fusion and Industrial Auto in the last 10 turns.


Its now 2249 and although I haven't invaded nor infiltrated the Uni yet nor killed the hunter seeker I think this should end up being a routine military win from here on out.

The Uni has 10 bases on its own continent and no more that I can find. Based on the units Zak is using we seem to be at military parity tech wise

Roze is infiltrated and has 4 bases on a small island. She has no techs that I do not have now.

Lal is up to 4 bases ( all size 1 or 2)on the outer reaches of my landmass-- connected by a 3 square wide isthumus-- One needlejet makes that area a killing zone for the probes he keeps sending. A 3 rover, 1 probe task force just took his capital and could eliminate them at leisure. Right now i'm hoping to get him to submit and vote for me for governor.

As for Domai

I founded a few new cities, mainly as needlejet ouposts and with a few captures am up to 31 bases. About 20 of these are size 7s tasked to building crawlers. I am now running a +4 industry and with a crawlered mine or 2, most of the size 7s can build a chaos fusion jet in one turn. While I worry about being PB'd since I don't have infiltration-- it would not be a killer since my cities have minimal overlap.


Once I get some crawlers out it will be time to go kill the uni. As it stands my missle boats are bombarding his bases while the "obsolete" missle fission reactor jets are being used to plink away at infrastructure boats and colony pods. Successful invasion seems to be inevitable.

I think I panicked a bit when I got a sense of how large the Uni tech lead was and saw Zak was building the SuperCollider. I had played Domai before and had always managed to close the tech gap much earlier. In retrospect, this game is textbook Domai. Even though I am still second on the power graphs, the gap is closing, and I have the sense that victory is now inevitable.

So thanks for the tips and next time I won't worry so much when Domai is so very far behind in the tech race. Its just that I know if I was playing Zak with the tech lead he had-- poor Domai would have been eating needlejets and Zak would now be enjoying the fruits of all that carefully prepared infrastructure.
[This message has been edited by cbn (edited January 18, 2001).]