18-01-2003 11:30									#1
	Constitutional Convention on Bill of Rights Put an end to popups!

Current CtP2 Bill of rights

Article I: Bill of Rights


1. Any person who has registered to participate in this Democracy Game in the CtP2 Democracy Game CivGroup is considered a Citizen. No person shall be denied the right to become a Citizen.

2. No Citizen shall ever be in any poll denied the right to vote and to keep this vote private. No Citizen shall ever be forced to vote in any poll.

3. Freedom of speech and the right to associate into any form of organization shall not be denied unless it violates Apolyton rules.

4. No citizen may be punished in any way without the consent of the Court. Still no one shall be banned permanently from participating in the Democracy Game, excluding those who are permanently banned from Apolyton. Note that people may still be banned for any amount of time, as long as it is not permanent.

5. The government may not knowingly hide information or give false information to the people. Therefore all citizens shall have access to the saved games. However, no Citizen shall ever 'play ahead'.

	19-01-2003 00:35									#2
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Looks good to me...

	19-01-2003 00:42									#3
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Belive this is the best Bill of Rights from all the DG around apolyton. Only the saved game acess must be dicussed.

	19-01-2003 00:46									#4
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Why? You don't want everyone to have it?

	19-01-2003 01:39									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Why? You don't want everyone to have it?

Actually the best is with it. But sometimes i wonder if someone is cheating in our game

Maybe the people here may think this is a problem.

	23-01-2003 17:45									#6
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Ha H does this mean that all people in the ctp and ctp2 civgroups are citizens or is it a typo

quote: . Any person who has registered to participate in this Democracy Game in the CtP2 Democracy Game CivGroup is considered a Citizen.

	23-01-2003 17:57									#7
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That's just a rather poor copy-paste job

	23-01-2003 19:29									#8
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Oh

	28-01-2003 00:25									#9
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Look ok, anything else to discuss?

	28-01-2003 07:14									#10
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Ok with me.

	28-01-2003 07:58									#11
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Hey!

Question!

What is the definition of "permanent" at the end of IV?

For example, a ban of "100 years" is technically not permanent if you go by the definition of "unending."

(Not that I'm planning to do anything...just in the defense of the little guy... )

	28-01-2003 08:56									#12
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Well, after a 100 years they can post again. Permanent means never ending. Never. Mwahahahahahaha

Hey wait, that could happen to me

Run kiddies! Run!

	28-01-2003 17:35									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I request that we patch up the copy/paste problems before we actually put it in our Constitution.

(It'd be funny trying to have a challenge based on the grounds of "I was in teh Ctp2 group, so I should be in the Ctp1DG too!")

Just minor fixes. There's nothing wrong with the document.

However, there's still a problem (in my mind) with the definition of "permanent". Is it a month? A year? A lot of this depends on how many turns are in CtP games and how long we expect to take for each turn. Can someone help me here?

	28-01-2003 19:41									#14
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Permanent is forever, non-permanent is anything shorter than that and something which is determined in advance. The exact length of bans would have to be determined by the Court, the mod(s) and the site admins. If for some reason we agree that it's absolutely necessary for someone to be banned for a year, we shall do so. But I for one can't imagine any circumstance where we would actually do that. Banning people is a serious punishment and shouldn't be used lightly.

I think the longest time anyone has ever been banned from Apolyton (excluding perma-bans) is something around 100 days (for repeatedly breaking the rules and after having banned for shorter periods of time several time before), so roughly 3 months. I think that if we ever get around to banning people from the DG (which I don't expect and hope), that's in practice also a maximum to work with. But I can't read the future so we can't say anything about that in advance...

	29-01-2003 07:15									#15
	Put an end to popups!

It'd really help if I knew how many turns were in a CtP game and how long we plan to take.



However, Locust's explanation of 3 months is ok with me; just want to know more specifics. Banning is indeed a very serious issue.

(Not that I plan to do anything to be banned, I'm just standing up for the little guy here... )

	29-01-2003 09:32									#16
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A game's max length is 500 turns, although I don't see us going past 300...

For more information on the banning issue please contact Ming, and you may even get a free trip to Mingapulco while you're there if you're lucky

	29-01-2003 09:34									#17
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Oh, and that isn't a bad copy and paste job, HT did say that was the CtP2DG BoR, not the proposed CtPDG one

	31-01-2003 17:38									#18
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Idea!

We need some sort of punishments for these rules that are enforcable by the Court. This will probably be set by precedent, but I'd like to know what is possible (a 100 year ban? )

Also, we need to throw in one that says anytime the government attempts to reduce our rights, we can lock 'em up and throw away the key.

	31-01-2003 22:26									#19
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look in the judicial branch thread for possible punishments

	01-02-2003 05:09									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Idea!

In the Judicial Branch Thread, Miggio pointed out that the wording of the Constitution allowed the Court to force a person to be Clerk. I suggest to avert this we add this:

6. Neither the government, nor any citizen, nor any entity in the Game, may force persons into unwanted work.

I.e., you couldn't be made to be the Clerk of the Court. Probably could find a more confusing synonym for "unwanted work" but don't feel like it, besides, we should make the document less confusing.

	01-02-2003 05:14									#21
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Also:

Judicial Branch 4(d) says that a possible punishment is "Barring from Government Positions."

I suggest that we make the Bill of Rights include "Right to Run for Government Positions." Also, we need to make teh Bill of Rights the highest law of the land, because this stuff limits the government, and an all-powerful Government is not what I want, nor anyone (probably). (Government=bad. :P )

	06-02-2003 11:03									#22
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Ok, can this be the BoR with the ctp edit and MrMitchells additional lazy mans clause.

1. Any person who has registered to participate in this Democracy Game in the CtP Democracy Game CivGroup is considered a Citizen. No person shall be denied the right to become a Citizen.

2. No Citizen shall ever be in any poll denied the right to vote and to keep this vote private. No Citizen shall ever be forced to vote in any poll.

3. Freedom of speech and the right to associate into any form of organization shall not be denied unless it violates Apolyton rules.

4. No citizen may be punished in any way without the consent of the Court. Still no one shall be banned permanently from participating in the Democracy Game, excluding those who are permanently banned from Apolyton. Note that people may still be banned for any amount of time, as long as it is not permanent.

5. The government may not knowingly hide information or give false information to the people. Therefore all citizens shall have access to the saved games. However, no Citizen shall ever 'play ahead'.

6. No citizen may be compelled to undertake any activity without consent.