18-01-2003 22:41									#1
	Turn 36 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- We possess 24 gold and are running 2 deficit.
- Researching Alphabet at 100%.

Urgent questions:
- We need more units in order to keep our shadows/scouts and to have escorts and defenders for the new cities.

Military:
- Slash continues to explore along the west coast, goes 1 next.
- Zonk and the Settler go 1 and will found Cyclone next turn.

Economy:
Hurricane finishes worker. Starts Palace as a prebuild for a barracks (or a warrior if we change our minds).
New worker from Hurricane moves onto fur forest by Hurricane.
Shift remaining Hurricane laborer to grassland.
EotS grows to size 5; shuffle laborers to work 3 FPs and 2 irrigated furs.


Diplomacy:
- nothing for now.

Last edited by nbarclay on 19-01-2003 at 09:04

	18-01-2003 23:10									#2
	Re: Turn 36 Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia. Status: - We possess 24 gold and are running 2 deficit. - Researching Alphabet at 100%.

You forgot to mention that we'll complete the worker in Hurricane this turn.

quote: Urgent questions: - We need more units in order to keep our shadows/scouts and to have escorts and defenders for the new cities.

We can start building a warrior in Hurricane, and afterwards build a barracks, assisted by a chop of the forest 7 of Hurricane by the new worker, and start cranking out veterans.
Cyclone can build a warrior and send it out immediately because it does not need garrisoning at the moment (we can see all the Voxian units that could pose a threat in time).

	18-01-2003 23:37									#3
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Question: How badly do we need/want garrisons in any but our front-line cities? If we're ready to assume barbarians are sedentary, we don't really need garrisons for anti-barbarian duty. We might want to use one or two warriors for "escort shuttle" duty, having them escort a settler to a city site and then come back for the next one, but we could leave rear-area cities like #3 temporarily undefended once the settlers get to their new homes safe and sound. That could let us get barracks going a bit more quickly than if we build larger numbers of warriors. (And I really don't like the idea of delaying Cyclone's work toward what could become a granary if peace holds or a barracks or unit if it doesn't.)

Nathan

	19-01-2003 00:08									#4
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It's not only city garrisons. They may be unnecessary in chieftain SP (referring to our difficulty setting), the AI would extort you and give you peace if you give in. But this is a MP game and our opponents are not that easy predictable like the AI. I want to avoid us to get "military weak" compared to Vox. This could give them thoughts.

	19-01-2003 00:33									#5
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On the other hand, keeping building reduntant unit will slow our overall growth too.

	19-01-2003 01:44									#6
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We don;t need garrisons in towns other than the front-line (for now).

We do need sufficient units to fortify on key defensive tiles, and to create two killzones.

	19-01-2003 03:28									#7
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Well, we need warriors in EotS to serve as military police whenever the population goes above 4 until we build a temple or connect the furs. When we do so we'll be able to free some garrisons, should we desire to.
At the moment, we can see the movement of all of Vox's warriors in and south of the Isthmus. City garrisons are unnecessary as defense because we see Vox's warriors, and we can escort them if they move towards our cities and occupy them in time, before Vox's warriors move in.

	19-01-2003 04:09									#8
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I totally agree, we need no more warriors, they just clatter up our land, doing mostly nothing, and there is no immediate threat exist which they are answering. They cost us upkeep (not gold yet, but veterans will make better use of it).
Get that barracks online, and crank veterans, and maybe we can shift the scale of power in our favor, and back our words with bronze and iron.

	19-01-2003 04:38									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Indeed, no more warrior now, get a barracks in Hurricane instead. If Vox wants to upgrade his warriors, it needs to build a barracks itself, so we have the time to do it. After that, start producing some spears there, which will be a lot better on our powergraph then those warriors, who aren't even veteran enough to upgrade to swords.

DeepO

	19-01-2003 05:26									#10
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If we found more cities, we can take care of our budget deficit.

	19-01-2003 05:48									#11
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Hmmm, makes sense. Perhaps we should switch Hurricane not to warrior but to barracks. Nathan?

	19-01-2003 06:06									#12
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There are three basic possibilities at this point regarding settler escort duty:

1) Have only Zonk available to escort settlers.

2) Strip Hurricane of its garrison.

3) Build one more warrior before we switch to barracks.

If we're 100% sure barbarians are sedantary, having only a single escort is okay, but I'm just paranoid enough not to want to make that assumption. (Cities don't concern me nearly as much because compared with the 2 pop points and 30 shields represented by a settler, anything a single barbarian can do to a city is minor, and once we see one, we can change our approach accordingly.) My own inclination is to build one more warrior in Hurricane before switching to a barracks.

	19-01-2003 07:08									#13
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Don't forget the bonus we get, since we are playing chieftain level.

	19-01-2003 07:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by alva Don't forget the bonus we get, since we are playing chieftain level.

If you're talking about the bonus in combat against barbs, that only does us any good if we have a unit to fight the barbs. But yes, if barbs do show up, that bonus would provide a huge advantage toward getting regular warriors promoted to veterans.

	19-01-2003 07:27									#15
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Zonk is fine for now, I think. Does anyone know the bonusses we get on Chieftain when it comes to barbs? I doubt any barb is going to attack a settler team, with just a simple warrior on top.

And one warrior is good for now... Zonk can head back in time to protect another settler

DeepO

[edit: quite a long X-post, it seems, I forgot that this window was still open, forgot to submit a few hours ago]

	19-01-2003 07:35									#16
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Zonk can protect our second settler fine. It's really the third one that concerns me; I don't think Zonk will be able to escort the second settler to #7 and then get back in time to escort the third.

	19-01-2003 07:59									#17
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It depends where the third will go to, of course. If he moves North, there might be a problem, which could be helped by leaving EotS undefended for 1 or 2 turns (no happiness needs, as after a settler we don't need MP). South shouldn't be a problem, as the warrior can meet the settler hafl way

DeepO

	19-01-2003 08:28									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Barb bonusses;

deity - 1
emperor - 50
monarch - 100
regent - 200
warlord - 400
chieftain - 800

	19-01-2003 09:04									#19
	Got spare money?

I think DeepO got it... no need for a Warrior in EotS after the Settler is built. Thus, I'd rather see Hurricane building a Barracks.

We NEED Spearmen!

	19-01-2003 09:11									#20
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I did some testing, and unless there are barbarians hanging around #7, Zonk actually can make it up to the gold hill ahead of Settler #3. (I've also about decided that the gold hill is where I want our fifth city (third built by our settler trio) unless Vox has troops on the way; not only do we have the hill for gold, but we have a couple FPs on the river as well for even more extra gold.)

Edit: Question I'd asked in the original of this message withdrawn.

If we would use the forest furs instead of the grassland for two turns to try to speed up our barracks, we'd end up overrunning what we need by three shields. Using the grassland costs us four shields in the short term, but we get one back from growing a turn sooner, so (if my thinking cap is on straight) we should get the barracks at the same time.

Nathan

Last edited by nbarclay on 19-01-2003 at 09:20

	19-01-2003 09:21									#21
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By the way, using a palace prebuild to redirect the benefits of a chop did work in the test scenario.

	19-01-2003 11:06									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I think DeepO got it... no need for a Warrior in EotS after the Settler is built. Thus, I'd rather see Hurricane building a Barracks. We NEED Spearmen!

Build a Barracks in Hurricane and then start cranking out veteran spearmen.

	19-01-2003 16:25									#23
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Turn is here.

Bad news, EotS is struck by disease.

	19-01-2003 16:33									#24
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We have plenty of time to send the turn, we're in our green hours, so I'm halting the game for discussion

EotS has 1 food to go to grow to size 4. Therefor there's no need to produce more than 1 food surplus. My proposal is, to place 2 citizens on fur plains and 1 on the southern fur forest, making 1 food, 7 shiends and 9 commerce. But disease may strike again next turn, it seems always to strike twice.

Hurricane starts to build (barracks/warrior), plenty of time to discuss this. Perhaps we should switch it to barracks and direct the 2 chop boni to speed it up. EotS needs to grow again first, and probably won't neet it.

	19-01-2003 16:42									#25
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Team Scores:

66 (+1) Gathering Storm
77 (+1) Demogyptica
65 (+0) Glory of War
71 (+1) Role Play
63 (+1) Vox Controli
59 (+1) Lux Invicta
76 (+2) Legoland

Again +2 for Lego.

	19-01-2003 16:59									#26
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AArgh that is bad, that means another one next turn

	19-01-2003 17:01									#27
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What's LEGO's succes btw?

	19-01-2003 17:07									#28
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Ouch! There go all my fancy plans.

I think the moves you've decided on look like the right ones. We'll have to see where things stand when it's time for the second chop, but at the very least, we'll want the first chop to go to Hurricane now. So go ahead and switch it over to barracks. (We'd already decided on a barracks for Hurricane anyhow, so this just reinforces our previous plan.)

	19-01-2003 17:54									#29
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Another thing is, the Voxian warrior+worker shuttle moved 1 south again. With no doubt they're building a military road.

Slash sees water, moving 1. The new worker out of hurricane goes to the adjacent fur forest.

The other chop will be ready after the next turn (it says 2 turns left), so we'll need to switch EotS to a wonder next turn (since we can't switch it to palace).

Where shall the Hurricane laborer work? Grassland?

	19-01-2003 17:59									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

Damn... that's bad luck. It more or less costs us a city, or at least sets us back 4 turns... Oh well, the risk of working fps, I guess.

Definately go for a barracks, other then that, it seems fine.

DeepO