10-01-2001 14:51									#1
	interesting feature of locusts Support Apolyton

Yesterday, I discovered accidently a very interesting feature of locusts.

You can use them (of course only your own, not planet's) as a flying airbase!
I remarked it, when I crossed a swarm of my locusts with a planet buster I was bringing to the front. Moving it on the square with my locusts, it suddenly stopped like it has reached a base. The next turn,
I could move it away without problems. The same works, as I have tested, with choppers and needlejets.

I do not garantee that is valid for others than my (German) version. So test it on own risk.

	10-01-2001 17:48									#2
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If this is works that would be cool. I'll go try that. I have never took the time to even build one of these. I used to build IODs, but never locusts.

	11-01-2001 01:31									#3
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Hmmm - I scenario tested it and couldn't replicate it - maybe it is a version thing

G.

	11-01-2001 15:03									#4
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Kind of off-topic but kind of on, I just used a Carrier Deck on a transport for the first time ever. It was great! To tell the truth, I kind of doubted it would work. I needed to make a naval invasion, and I brought over a bunch of Needlejets to soften up the beach for me, and it worked like a charm. I guess I'd assumed it was broken, 'cuz no one ever talks about doing it. A little thrill, there. Fun to have Needlejets have such mobility.

	11-01-2001 15:30									#5
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Nobody talks about it, because the feature comes so late in the game that by that point it's essentially over for most people. Not to mention that it's easier to bring your forces over by stopping in bases (yours or a pactmate's)

	11-01-2001 19:12									#6
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I like Locusts, but basically they're hard to build, as they become available quite late in the game. I yet prefer the gravships, which I make cheap - best weapon, no armor. But, they can have more HP than 10, while Locusts, being a natvi lifeform will be having trouble with someone equippied by a Singularity or Quantum reactor.

------------------
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	11-01-2001 19:58									#7
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Solver,

A native attacking or being attacked by any conventional unit even singularity has combat such that the reactor is basically treated as a fission reactor. It handled by the game doling out 4 times the amount of damage to a singularity reactor unit, 3 times the amount of damage to a quantum, 2 for fusion and 1 for a fission.

OTOH a singularity self destructing unit will likely anhialate any native. Missiles always toast natives as well.

Og

	12-01-2001 00:59									#8
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I usually end up getting locusts WAY before gravships, and thus I end up using them to finish off most of my conquest games on maps with multiple continents....

	13-01-2001 08:46									#9
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I used a carrier fleet before to carry a fleet of gas choppers and PB's to perform some ethnic cleansing, I was sven in the freshwater sea, and had decided not to expand outside of the sea, except for one land base in the narrow northen strip. I had no diplomacy prospects because my neighbour on all sides was Marr.

It was fun having a navy, I'm thinking of altering the .txt to make carrier deck available at Orbital Spaceflight (make the deck out of the same stuff as hydroponic labs)

Repair bay is also one I havn't used, IndAuto would be make sense for repair bays.

The submarine hull is broken unfortunately, the AI can see submerged ships

	14-01-2001 10:19									#10
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Return to the topic: I tryed to use a locustus as an air base in the senario editor (english version) and failed as well. But it would be weird if this could happen only in the german version. Did anyone else try to do it?

	13-01-2001 23:14									#11
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This is kind of off-topic, but I've like to mention that LoC have one more interesting trait - theyre able to capture bases. And that's way before Gravships, which makes them one of the best units in the game (in the middle-game, at least).

LoD

	14-01-2001 00:19									#12
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Effectively, Locusts use the gravship chassis - check out the alphax.txt file and there they are. As such, they are the first 'gravship' unit you are able to get your hands on - although they aren't as powerful as regular gravships, they allow great mobility, whilst being relatively cheap.

	14-01-2001 09:39									#13
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And of course, if you can manage to snag the Dream Twister, Neural Amp, and run Green (and Cybernetic when it's available) you can get a pretty high attack bonus out of that Planet rating....

The only big disadvantage to them is that the defense bonuses of AAA Tracking and Aerospace Complexes apply to units defending against them. So trying to take a base with multiple AAA defenders (particulerly with that ability that gives +50% def from psi) can be extremely costly.....

Of course, if they want to be that way, you can just kill all their formers and crawlers, then bomb all their terraforming to death and wait for the various low-resource affects to cripple them. It's a wonderfully eco-friendly way to fight.

	14-01-2001 17:41									#14
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mark13: I suspected that, but never got myself to check this (too lazy ). Thanks for the info.

Sindai: I wouldn't use them for attacks - they are too expensive. Usually they should be the close-support of your drop garrisons - they can take over bases when normal drop operations are impeded (Aero Complexes and SAM/AAM units) or destroy air units in flight.

LoD

	14-01-2001 17:43									#15
	Got spare money?

And for destroying formers and crawlers in the field, I would consider MtG sucide X-chopper strategy. Very low cost combined with very good effects.

	14-01-2001 19:44									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Locusts use the Antigrav chasis, but have less moves. Also, they are quite expensive. By the time I get gravships, I have Quantum Laser weapon, with the graviton gun coming very soon. I design a very cheap unit (50-60 minerals): Antigrav, Quantum Laser / Graviton Gun, no armor, no special abilities. With Sing. reactor it's 50 miner., 60 minerals with Singularity reactor. Thus, I have some bases producing these, normally I have at least 2 bases in good position that can produce such a unit in 1 turn. Thus, each turn I get 2 Graviton Gravships (weapon doesn't make the unit more expensive), and in six turns, I'm able to mount a good offensive with some 15 Skybases.
Locusts and gravships capture bases, as they both use the same chasis, and AAA / Aerospace Complex helps vs. both of them.
Neural Amplifier helps vs. locusts, Trance units do as well. So, IMO, defending vs. locusts is much more easier than defending vs. Gravships, as, with presence of Neural Amplifier, you need an AAA Trance unit, even not with the best armor, it would kill the Locusts easily. In fact, it can be a special unit with no armor, only for PSI combat with the worms and locusts, especially.
Second, at the time I have Locusts, I rarely have bases that are good enough to produce them in a good amount of turns. But, if I manage to make only 2 of these, I can have excellent use of them, if sending to enemy territory and making them kill the Formers.

------------------
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	14-01-2001 20:49									#17
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This thread gave me an idea for a variation on removing friendly sea bases too close to your own. Build a swarm of LoCs and release into wild next to it.

	16-01-2001 19:58									#20
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Mouse,

Your better served making IoD's and releasing to the wild to take out those pesty sea bases. They are cheaper than Locusts and achieve the same purpose. If you have Maritime Sp then move of 6 gives good ability to mov IoD into place. It always nice to have a few Iod's on hand just in case someone get the bright idea of creating a base in an area you'ld rather not have them. Swim your Iod into place release to wild, base size one exists no more.

Og

	17-01-2001 04:15									#21
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Allegedly, Repair Bay is broken.
That is, those who ran tests about it, verified *exactly* the SAME repair rate, with or without them, in any condition.
I never used them sp I can't say it in first person.

	18-01-2001 00:51									#22
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Ogie - That would work in Smac, but with Smacx, IoD's become passive and wont attack bases.

	18-01-2001 01:09									#23
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Mouse,

Interesting effect with IoD's and one I hadn't obviously tried/observed to date in SMACX. Hmmm... guess I haven't done that trick in awhile. I wonder if the same applies to Sea lurks. I have seen Sea lurks attack garrisoned bases eliminating the garrison. After that they simply stay put and never attack the base again until you have another unit present.

Seems to me they made the roaming native life a little friendlier in SMACX in that the sea units apparantly won't worm rape your undefended bases. Hmmm....

Og

	19-01-2001 10:40									#24
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Ooh no, Sealurks are feral, they'll attack anything that's not fungus or empty ocean. I've had native life, both water and land destroy a base.

	19-01-2001 02:04									#25
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Mouse,

Hmmm.... Interesting

Question tho' in all my experience with coastal bases being attacked by sea lurks. Sea lurks attack garrison unit and if successful stay parked until another unit is in the base. Sea lurk attacks again etc. At no time does the sea lurk take the coastal base.

Now I am assuming that the sea lurk has the equivalent of marine ability in order to allow it to attack the land base to begin with, as the IoD were prevented from attacking land bases in SMAC before. Why then does the sea lurk not invade the base reducing pop by 1 as land based worms do??

I can't recall a time when a lurk went after one of my sea bases, but perhaps that is the dif.

Penny for your thoughts Mouse.

Og

	19-01-2001 20:31									#26
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Before I start, I'll define normal sealurks as 'native sealurks' and faction created and released as 'artificial sealurks'. There seems to be a difference in their behavior. Now, I haven't experienced the behavior you've described for native sealurks since they usually don't live very long once I know they exist. I have seen artificial sealurks invade and destroy a base since it's one of my main uses for them. I'll have to test whether artificial IoDs would actually attack bases since I've never seen this done by a native IoD in smacx.

Just for the record, when playing, I'm rabidly xenophobic in that, if a unit's flag isn't the same colour as the rest of my units and it's near one of my bases, it's targeted for elimination by any means nessesary. I'm also a perfectionist with no base squares overlapping, so any foreign base who's base squares are next to or overlapping one of my bases is also targeted for elimination or conquest, usually elimination. I'm somewhat lenient towards units and bases belonging to a pactmate, but they shouldn't push their luck.