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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Call To Power II > CtP2-Democracy Game > OFFICIAL: Should we go to War with the Austrians?
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Should we go to War with the Austrians? (Time out:0 days after 19-01-2003, 05:24)
Yes
No
Abstain
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Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 05:23 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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OFFICIAL: Should we go to War with the Austrians? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

From what i can tell from the turn chat and the maps available our negotiations for the Austrian's map has failed, and any future attempts would be just as unsuccessful.

Note: Your voting to choose if you want to go to War in the next 2 turns only.

The question is though should we go to War by attacking the new Austrian city founded on the Nothern river beside the wheat good? Or do we play it peaceful with our powerful neighbours and expand by our own settlers for now?

Last edited by Maquiladora on 19-01-2003 at 06:05

Locutus is offline Locutus
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 05:41 Visit Locutus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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The diplomatic situation may still be salvageable. It depends on their regard. But I need to see a savegame before I can say anything about that... Either way, trying a *proper* map request can be done anyway, regardless of what we decide here.

(Want to see the savegame before I decide on war/no war...)

Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 05:48 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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Do you think this poll is abit vague? I mean it doesnt state when you want to go to war just that you do or dont. I mean we could build 9 more cities on our own and then go to war, thats still a vote for war.

I personally want to build one more city on our own then prepare and wage war, i guess thats a vote for war.

Locutus is offline Locutus
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 05:52 Visit Locutus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Maybe you should expand that in your first turn a little: this poll should mean that we will go to war NOW (or at least within the next 2 turns).

HuangShang is offline HuangShang
King
USA, SoCal, L.A.
Jul 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 07:21
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i'd say we run out of their borders and wait for the new city to be size 2, i voted no, not yet, even though im in the party For War

centrifuge is offline centrifuge
Prince
USA
Apr 2002
time: 22:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 07:52
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Not yet

mapfi is offline mapfi
Prince
Zurich, Switzerland
Jul 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 16:40
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destroy that city!

Dale is offline Dale
King
Sir! Why do you keep clicking on me?
Dec 2000
time: 15:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 17:59
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Not in the next 2 turns, but maybe in 3.

Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline Zaphod Beeblebrox
King
aachen, germany
Aug 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 19:16
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why destroy that city? there will be no benefit from that. if we attack at all, than citys worth capturing with forces able to do so.

Turambar is offline Turambar
Prince
England
Apr 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 20:16 Visit Turambar's homepage!
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No war until we are strong enough!

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 20:34
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All tied up.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 19-01-2003 20:35
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Who abstained? Surely everyone has an opinion about a subject as important as war and peace.

Pedrunn is offline Pedrunn
King
of Natal, Brazil
Jul 2001
time: 02:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
why destroy that city? there will be no benefit from that. if we attack at all, than citys worth capturing with forces able to do so.


The goodmod gives gold and PW when conquering the city form its owner according to the formula:

Pillaged Gold/PW= City owner reserve / number of cities

So depending on the Austrian Gold and PW we can boost our reserves and weaken them.

MrBaggins is offline MrBaggins
King

May 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Who abstained? Surely everyone has an opinion about a subject as important as war and peace.


I did. I don't think there is a completely convincing case either way for war within 2 turns.

I.E. It would be tremendously beneficial for us to win.

Its extremely risky for us to attack *now*

Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline Zaphod Beeblebrox
King
aachen, germany
Aug 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:15
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ic what you mean pedrunn, but we should only conquer cities we can hold or we want to destroy utterly because their placed bad. neither of those seems to be the situation here at the moment.

Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:17 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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Ugh, i wish i hadnt voted for war now when i created this thread, its not what we want... yet. Bloody Democracy

mapfi is offline mapfi
Prince
Zurich, Switzerland
Jul 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:36
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I think we held this vote prematurely - first there's still the map deal that could work ans second:

Are we going to use the moving cursor over enemy city trick to see if there are any units in the austrian city? If not I think it's too risky, but I say we use it. The game's tough as it is.

I also wish I hadn't voted yet...

Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:41 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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Yeah i know, its hanging abit in the air with the Austrians, the vote should be war or second settler really.

quote:
Are we going to use the moving cursor over enemy city trick to see if there are any units in the austrian city?


Thats a good question, are we also going to build farms under cities? Right click everywhere to look for stealth units? Use retreat slaver bug?... maybe we need a poll decing this too.

Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline Zaphod Beeblebrox
King
aachen, germany
Aug 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:44
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Got spare money?

rightclick for stealth units? thats a one i didn't know

mapfi is offline mapfi
Prince
Zurich, Switzerland
Jul 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 18:48
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quote:
the vote should be war or second settler really.

not really, Dale said that the Austrians would probably give in if we destroy their city and we can go on with the settler - but I think we need to hurt them now or we will be crushed.

Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 19:06 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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The Austrians will give in if we take their new city? Im not so sure about it They must have 5 or even 6 cities now and theyre way above us in the military and science graphs.

Locutus is offline Locutus
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:25
  Old Post 20-01-2003 20:24 Visit Locutus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I'm not sure about Dale's theory. The AI is probably quite powerful already. Dale may be right, but he may not be.

If we could get away with destroying the Austrian city, I would favour it, but I'm not sure we can. So I'm tempted to vote No, but I want to await the map exchange if possible. How long will this poll be open, Maq?

Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 03:33 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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Um i think its open forever...

Not that this poll was ever really clear enough for the voters, although it was official. 7-6 and one abstain, I think it should be a little more. We can retaliate but is any majority enough to start a war?

If we get their map we should make a new poll with the map and info attached or something.

Devil of Truth is offline Devil of Truth
Prince
Keep honking... I'm reloading.
Sep 2002
time: 07:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 13:55
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Give peace a chance.

ískallin is offline ískallin
Prince
of the Republic of Iceland
Mar 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 21:03
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the AI wont give peace a chance so why should we bother?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
rightclick for stealth units? thats a one i didn't know


It's in our tactics faq.

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
Emperor
UK
Jan 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 23:15
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well i played a Cradle 1.34b game yesterday:

difficulty: very hard
barbs: roaming(?)

I had one city on what turned out to be an eastern penisula. I met the greeks to the west of me and their diplo stance was very much like the Austrians - alot more powerfull than us(as i turned out they had five cities to my one.). So i appeased abit(gave gold for a few turns to try to improve their regard for us), did a small amount of grovelling as they were way ahead of me on the graphs. Then i decided this situation looked kinda like the Austrian one so i experimented. Production was cranked up and 2 warriors and a slinger i had found in a goody hut attacked the nearest city and took it. I carried on this pattern untill i now have 13 cities, of which i only settled 3 of them. The Greeks have two cities left and i'm in a stronger position, although still way behind the leaders in tech.
So in this case taking the risk was worth it. I don't know how much of an edge that slinger gave me but i think if i had another warrior instead the outcome would have been the same as the city just had one defender.

Locutus is offline Locutus
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:25
  Old Post 21-01-2003 23:26 Visit Locutus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I don't think you can compare Cradle/Emperor/Roaming to SAP/Deity/Raging...

Wise Ass is offline Wise Ass
Warlord
Your Mom's House... Why?
Aug 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 24-01-2003 01:49 Visit Wise Ass's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Locutus
I don't think you can compare Cradle/Emperor/Roaming to SAP/Deity/Raging...





No War! yet

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