21-01-2003 01:14									#91
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I don't know what all you pro - war people are still doing on this forum. The army/navy/marines/air force is recruiting for the war. Sign up since are all in a hurry to send others out to the do work for you, while you enjoy the unparalled comforts of imperialism.

And don't say that I'm anti-american. Because I'm not. The people who love american the most are not the ones who support the short lived adventures of any administration. The patriots are the ones who are looking ahead in the future, and who challenge the nation when it is going off in the wrong direction.

	21-01-2003 01:28									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Che, I like you man but you can't honestly believe that they were teaching torture do you?

You have to wonder when you look at the results. Either the School has a failure rate of close to 100% in teaching democratic ideals and respect for human rights (in which case it should be closed as a waste of money) or it has been successful in teaching these soldiers how to most effectively defend their countries against the threat of democracy (in which case it should be shut down).

Annecdotal evidence from people who were present for various classes have informed certain groups (like Vietnam Vets Against the War and one military counseling group whose name escapes me) that torture was trained in a "you should never apply electrodes to a suspects genitalia, forcing prisoners to stand upright by chains is wrong," i.e., teaching them what to do by telling them "not" to do it.

We know for a fact that other agencies of the US specifically tought torture. Dan Mitrione, formerly of USAID (Agency for International Development) used to teach "The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect." Mitrione was later killed by terrorists. While the CIA itself doesn't believe that torture is an effective way of obtaining information, it is an effective method of state-terror, and they taught it where ever they found allies in the struggle against Communism. The School of the Assassins was founded as part of this effort, and the graduates of the school went on to lead almost all of the coups in Latin America since the mid-1960s.

	21-01-2003 03:28									#93
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I contend that just about every Latin American military officer has been to the school of the Americas. There for saying every military coupe was lead by a graduate is like saying every leader of the Soviet Union was a communist.

Of course they were communists and of course a military leader from Latin America went to the school.

	21-01-2003 04:39									#94
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quote: Blamming the school because the message didn't stick with a few graduates is a little like shutting down USC because O.J. Simpson hacked up his ex-wife.

As the training manuals (they were released to the public back in '96) specifically recommend torturing, blackmailing, arresting family members of, etc. "terrorists," I think it's perfectly fair to blame the school.

	21-01-2003 06:03									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I contend that just about every Latin American military officer has been to the school of the Americas.

Actually it hasn't been all of the officers. Only a few get to go every year. At best the number of Latin American officers trained at the School of the Assassins since it opened is a few thousand.

	21-01-2003 06:10									#96
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Anti-American imperialism, Ned. We want our country to do good in the world, not evil.

Why, of course, Che. If America was a socialist paradise, the left would be pro-war.

	21-01-2003 06:11									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc I don't get it. how can Americans be anti-American? Is not 'un-American' a better put-down? Or maybe such a term is too loaded historically speaking.

The US is loaded with anti-American types, which Che carefully notes, really means anti-American imperialism types. They are leftist who want to see the advance of socialism, not capitalism.

	21-01-2003 06:19									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Anti-American has become a meaningless buzz phrase by right-wingers who don't seem to understand that objecting to U.S. policy isn't the same as hating the U.S.

In a way this is true. But the leftist protesters really are not honest. They are not anti-war. They are anti-US. They oppose the US because the US is capitalist.

As I said in another thread, I researched to find out what Greenpeace said about the last NK nuke crises. TI found that they issued a press release that launched into a tirade not about NK, but about SK!

Greenpeace is niether Green nor for peace. Greenpeace is for the desctruction of capitalism.

	21-01-2003 06:26									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Why, of course, Che. If America was a socialist paradise, the left would be pro-war.

Not so, my friend. If America were a socialist paradise there would be no need for war. Even if we were simply socialist and not a paradise (i.e, assuming the US alone was socialist), we wouldn't be preparing to invade Iraq. On the other hand, we'd be giving massive amounts of aid and support to the Kurds (fellow commies, gotta help them )