19-01-2003 21:56									#1
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I've never appreciated how (much more) user-friendly civ3 is compared to many other games. It was a little tough starting out, but you learn quick. I thought back to other games such as Shogun: Total War, and just recently Europa Universalis II.

Civ3 is simple and streamlined, and when you want to do something, you know where to find it or can figure it out fairly fast.

Shogun, is pretty basic unitl you get into the battle system, with a bunch of things i don't even bother with.

I just tried Europa Universalis II. The tutor didn't work worth a damn and so when i started a game, i didn't know what it even wanted me to do. buttons are everywhere and it takes a lot of guesswork. It souldn't be that hard to set a unit to explore... 2 minutes into the game i get these notices saying i'm being attacked in some province i've never heard of and spend several minutes just trying to find it. then i must figure out how to attack, build units, etc. so i just gave up.

in short, i've heard compliments on the ease of civ3, but never appreciated it until i look at how bad it could be.

	19-01-2003 23:34									#2
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Shogun expecially wasn't worth all those high scores around gaming sites

	20-01-2003 03:51									#3
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IMO that is the power of this game.. look at SMAC, a relative similar game, but much harder to get going because non of it makes any real sence (Tech tree mostly).

	20-01-2003 04:53									#4
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quote: Originally posted by alva IMO that is the power of this game.. look at SMAC, a relative similar game, but much harder to get going because non of it makes any real sence (Tech tree mostly).

Yeah, usually sci-fi games aren't that realistic :P

	20-01-2003 10:17									#5
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SMAC rewards people who are willing to put a little time and effort into it. The idea was that Civ fans would have no trouble learning all the complexities.

I'm not sure where people learning how to play EU would get their motivation. The tutorial, gameplay and interface are so confusing that you really have to trust the person or publication that recommended it to you.

Shogun is visually beautiful, and has great ambience. Sure the interface is a little clunky, but the experience is so original that you actually want to spend the 1.5 hours it takes to get used to it. I defy anyone that plays an afternoon of Shogun not to pick the Japanese when they come back to Civ3!

I agree that Civ3 has a very simple and streamlined interface, as well as game rules and concepts. Some hard-core veterans were angry at this, which understandable but pointless. With the Civ series' popularity, Infogrames/Firaxis would have been silly not to cater to the widest possible audience. Making Civ3 as complex as SMAC was would have been a definite mistake.


Dominae

	20-01-2003 10:26									#6
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quote: Originally posted by alva IMO that is the power of this game.. look at SMAC, a relative similar game, but much harder to get going because non of it makes any real sence (Tech tree mostly).

SMAC made a lot of sense to Sci-Fi buffs (sort of like me). In fact, I would argue that there is a better correspondence between techs and abilities/improvements/governments/etc. in SMAC than in Civ3. High Energy Chemistry? Hm, sounds deadly, must be military. Industrial Automation? That is probably going to help my economy. The Wheel? Hm, why does this let me see Horses? The Hanging Gardens comes with Monarchy? Well, ok. I can only build boats once I can draw maps? What a minute!

But I do admit tha the names in SMAC do take some getting used to. It's just that they in fact made a whole lot more sense (to me) once I remembered them all.


Dominae

	20-01-2003 13:33									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I agree that Civ3 has a very simple and streamlined interface, as well as game rules and concepts.Dominae

The interface is simple and intuitive. I hadn't played Civ-series games for a couple of years and picked it up again immediately. As for the game's concepts - well, they seem simple when you read about them in the manual, but this game has so much depth that I'm not sure "simple" is the word to describe it. To be honest, I'm a little awed by the game. Nearly every time I play a session I catch some nuance I hadn't noticed before.

As for EU2... I admit that realtime games aren't my thing. Given a little playing time I can generally get acclimated to them and sometimes enjoy them. But after a LOT of hours with EU2, I still found that I had it paused more than it was running and I was still trying to remember what button to click to do even the routine actions. Maybe someday I'll try again, but not soon.

	20-01-2003 16:23									#8
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Considering how much info SMAC throws at you all the time, and the astonishing number of actions at your disposal, the interface is a miracle of clarity and friendliness.

Compare this with Civ3 and its lack of terraforming options... I do not dispute that Civ3 has a simple and intuitive interface, but it is a far less complex game than SMAC...

	20-01-2003 16:34									#9
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Civ3 is also user friendly in the sense that its stable, doesnt crash to the desktop every 2 minutes (at least in SP, dont know anything about MP). About the interface, its great. I just wish there was an in-game list of all the keyboard commands (but of course youd have to know the keyboard command to get to it,doh!)
Please dont mention EU just the thought of it gives me douche-chills!

	20-01-2003 18:49									#10
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the single greatest shortcoming in civ3 compared to SMAC is in my opinion the government system.
In SMAC you had the option of construction your government of a few different factors and specializing it to your needs. In civ3 you still have the exact same governments as were in civ1!!!

not much that could be done about it, but I felt that C3 is just a souped-up version of civ1&2 introducing little innovative interesting features.