20-01-2003 01:15									#1
	Official: Base Near the Hive Suffering from ads?

General Tacticus has suggested that in order to launch an offensive against the hive, we should have a sea base just outside it. vote for where, if at all, it should go.



3 days

	20-01-2003 03:17									#2
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1 base, on yellow. Lets Mind Control a Hive land base though. That'll really annoy Yang

	20-01-2003 05:21									#3
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Placing a base near Hiverian waters would be a potential risk to the lives of the citizens of that base seeing as it places them in a direct line of fire between our forces and Hiverian forces. Given that now the Hive posses Doctrine: Air Power, any bases built in their territorial waters would be within striking distance of their aircraft, we cannot afford to have the blood of our civilians on our hands.

	20-01-2003 14:59									#4
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4 bases, at grey, light blue, white and yellow. We need staging points for choppers and noodles. With even vaguely decent defenses (1-3-1, w/ AAA if possible), we'll be fine, and none of our peoples blood will be spilt.

	21-01-2003 17:50									#5
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quote: Placing a base near Hiverian waters would be a potential risk to the lives of the citizens of that base seeing as it places them in a direct line of fire between our forces and Hiverian forces. Given that now the Hive posses Doctrine: Air Power, any bases built in their territorial waters would be within striking distance of their aircraft, we cannot afford to have the blood of our civilians on our hands.

That's why we need the techs to build interceptors and AAA troops.

	21-01-2003 21:01									#6
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2 bases. red and dark purple....great staging points for invasion and razing operations....what ever we want....they are also great fallback bases if invasion fails

	21-01-2003 22:11									#7
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I was wondering if anyone's considered a somewhat more bold colonization move:

1. Get together a decent invasion force, one that can at least hold off Yang's hordes for a while, and add a (land) colony pod.

2. Stuff those units in the appropriate number of transports, and send them over (with a large escort, of course).

3. Land everything 2 squares NE of the light blue spot, and build the colony there (a rover chassis could be used for the colony pod to allow same turn base building, right?). We would have access to a monolith, and the road network and a quick route to the capital (nice if you want to assassinate researchers). Perhaps it would be prudent to go one more square to the NE to get the sensor tower in the new base's territory.

Then again perhaps this isn't workable because it requires too large a force to garrison the base and would place the citizens of the base in danger (although frankly I think anyone moving there would know what they and his/her descendants are getting into).

I think it'd be worth it just to see the look on Yang's face

	22-01-2003 06:23									#8
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While that's an interesting idea, and one that TKG suggested himself, I don't think it's really workable (yet) because our troops will never stand up to Yang's army, but we can hold off his navy and air force.

	22-01-2003 08:44									#9
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Ah, so this has been discussed before. I do agree it would be difficult and non-cost-effective to stand up to Yang's massive land army; if this is the case, however, wouldn't mind controlling one of his land bases (as suggested by several) lead to the same problem?

	22-01-2003 08:57									#10
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Well, it hasn't been really discussed; TKG mentioned it when he replied to me, and I liked the idea, but I don't think it would be a very good idea until we can get some serious garrison troops together.

As for Mind Controlling Hive bases - not really, because we get the local garrison to add to the defences as well, and we reduce Yang's power at the same time. Either way, though, we'd need a lot of troops - and I don't think MC is really practical currently, as it would cost a fortune.

	23-01-2003 02:58									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus TKG mentioned it when he replied to me

i did?

i thought i mentioned building several transports full of invaders and using the sea base as a launch point, but i don't recall mentioning a land colony...

	23-01-2003 05:31									#12
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Oh, maybe it was Drogue then. Somebody did.

	24-01-2003 15:19									#13
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Yes, it was me. I think a land colony, from a probe point of view, is much easier to use. However I have no qualms what-so-ever with using a sea base instead.

	24-01-2003 15:23									#14
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I agree with you there, I just think it would be impractical at this point in time. A better idea would be to take one of Yang's bases - The Leader's Horde, for instance, and use that as a base instead. Once we have someneedlejets and troops in transports, it should be a piece of cake.

	24-01-2003 23:45									#15
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Will we really try to build sea bases near the Hive while they have needlejets patrolling the area?

	25-01-2003 02:53									#16
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apparently, yes.

i'm sure once we get a 1-bestAAA-4 *2 or 2 in there, the hive's jet's won't be a match.

	25-01-2003 04:13									#17
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Yup, especially once our interceptors start coming online with Fusion Lasers.

	25-01-2003 05:24									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Yup, especially once our interceptors start coming online with Fusion Lasers.

Should we start emphasizing needle production so that we have enough "hulls" around when we get FLs that we can upgrade our way to an overwhelming airforce?

	25-01-2003 05:38									#19
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Well, I intend to, as much as possible. I'm already planning on prototyping our first needljet at NA.

	25-01-2003 07:02									#20
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I agree that needlejets are important, however I don't think we ned hundreds. 5 or 6 best-best-12 needlejets, and the same of interceptors, will be plenty to stop any hive onslaught, protect or bases, and make strategic strikes at Yangs key bases. I would say keep building infrastructure, interspersed with military units, but not to flood them. Our people want to be safe, and I think we can transcend quicker with infrastructure than with military units. I'm all for building some, but let us not completely militarise. Make our bases better places to live

	25-01-2003 07:07									#21
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Why bother armouring the needlejets? It's just an unnecessary extravagance, and if we do this right, we won't need it.

And a dozen or so needljets isn't going to cut it. We need enough to take and maintain control over their skies, and destroy any Hive units we can see.

As to the last point - we won't need total militarisation to build an overwhelming air force, not witht he amount of production we have. It should only take 2-3 turns per jet, interspersed with facilities.

	25-01-2003 07:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue best-best-12 needlejets

you havn't by chance been playing unpatched, have you? i know unpatched armour on air units doesn't cost. however with patch, it's quite expensive

	26-01-2003 00:12									#23
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Which patch are yoy talking about? I have installed a couple, but obviously not that one, as in my version it does not cost extra. A dozen jets will cut it. Why do we need more? If we wanted to conquer all then maybe we would need a few more, but I have never needed more than 5 or 6 needlejets for any purpose, even on transcend. Used wisely, they are enough to take and hold a few bases. I generally use 3 needlejets/copters and a couple of rovers/hovertanks to take a continent. Moreover, I think we can leach tech and energy of yang for a bit, before we engage in an invasion. We can take one or two bases, and have enough to hold them, while letting probes get to work stealing and buying bases.

	26-01-2003 01:06									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Which patch are yoy talking about? I have installed a couple, but obviously not that one, as in my version it does not cost extra.

V4.0 for SMAC, V2.0 for SMAX. www.firaxis.com

	26-01-2003 01:52									#25
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I dont have SMAX, could that be the difference? I think i have 4.0 for SMAC.

	26-01-2003 03:12									#26
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well check and make sure, because i know armour not costing for air units was one of the bugs they fixed. did you reinstall perhaps? i know that happened to me once: i reinstalled and forgot to put the patch back in, and was playing unpatched for some time

	26-01-2003 03:47									#27
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Just loaded the '35 save with my version of original SMAC (it came with the Planetary Pack), went to the design shop and checked: Armor adds significantly to the cost of Needles with weapons.

	26-01-2003 18:14									#28
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I think it's that I've been running it without the CD, and it's copied from another HD, so I can't install SMAX, and probably the patches haven't installed properly. Never mind, just scrap the comment about best-best-12, best-1-12 would do fine. However I still think we have no need of them in large numbers.

	27-01-2003 18:07									#29
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Why not? Yang's army isn't exactly small. We want to get the war over with ASAP, do we not?

	27-01-2003 21:05									#30
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Because we need to use the minerals and energy for something else, more important IMHO. Well, at the moment Yang isn't attacking us, so I don't see any reason to launch a strike yet. I think a few needlejets and a few interceptors for defense, and annoyance would do us fine for quite a while. Yes we're at war, but we've no need to fight it yet.