20-01-2003 03:17									#1
	First impressions of Galciv Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Please not that this is not a full review. I don't have the time to do one, and I'm not even sure if I'm not under some kind of implicit NDA.

Anyway...here goes:

For starters: Definately buy this game. It is Strategy with a capitol S. A sh*tload of techs, custumizable everything, and a great political/diplomatic model. I am already in love

On my machine it does play a bit slow, but my machine isn't exactly high-end, what with an AMD K2 450 CPU. Slower CPU's than this one would probably make for a very slow game, as the system requirements are likely to be somewhere around 500 MHz.

The game really feels and plays like a finished game, allthough it is still in beta. I have played release versions of game that were more unfinished than this one...not to mention that Stardock has promised that the finished game will include even more multimedia.

Asmodean

	20-01-2003 04:16									#2
	Put an end to popups!

quote: I'm not even sure if I'm not under some kind of implicit NDA.

AFAIK you're not

	20-01-2003 04:58									#3
	Re: First impressions of Galciv Inflate your Upload Space

quote: not to mention that Stardock has promised that the finished game will include even more multimedia.

Pros:
Ooh, more fun multimedia

Cons:
Downloading another 160+mb file on my dial-up modem. :sarcasm: joy... :/sarcasm: Hopoefully this can be split up into smaller files this time.

	21-01-2003 00:32									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Really: You downloaded Galciv on a dial-up modem. Hats off to you, Edan...hats off.

Asmodean

	22-01-2003 08:22									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Is it going to be in stores?

	22-01-2003 08:52									#6
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Is it going to be in stores?

Yes, it'll be in stores. The download was for the beta version (although I believe it will still be available to by online after it's out).

	22-01-2003 08:55									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Asmodean Really: You downloaded Galciv on a dial-up modem. Hats off to you, Edan...hats off.

Broadband? Who needs it!

Help me. I'm trapped in dialup and need broadband. AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

	22-01-2003 10:18									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Edan Yes, it'll be in stores. The download was for the beta version (although I believe it will still be available to by online after it's out).

I was going to join the beta, but there was only a week left, and then I would not have been given the super-beta (or whatever) versions.

I decided to wait a bit.

Good to know it will be in stores. I will have to bug some of the bigger retailers around me to get it.

	22-01-2003 10:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I was going to join the beta, but there was only a week left, and then I would not have been given the super-beta (or whatever) versions.

Hmm? AFAIK, the beta testers will be getting all the versions (including the final one).

Gamestop and EBworld already have the game listed for preorder, so they should have them in stock when in comes out.

	22-01-2003 11:55									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Edan Hmm? AFAIK, the beta testers will be getting all the versions (including the final one).

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - GalCiv Beta closes this Friday

After this Friday the GalCiv beta is closing to new users. So if you want to get into the beta, now's the time to do it.

However, be aware that when the GAMMA become available, we will be closing updates to all but a handful of beta testers for security purposes. You'll be able to continue playing the beta but subsequent builds won't be available until release at which time you'll get the CD-ROM version sent to you.

It is the 'gamma' that is closed off, apparently. I figured I may as well wait for it in stores.

	22-01-2003 18:23									#11
	Tired of ads?

My bad.

	23-01-2003 03:44									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

A new build has been put up, that slightly changes the look and feel of the game. I haven't played it long enough to notice any gameplay changes, allthough Brad says there are some.

Asmodean

	27-01-2003 06:40									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There will probably be another public build this next week. Lot of work put on AI and other polish things.

	28-01-2003 00:14									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Great, Brad...thanks for the heads up.

Asmodean

	02-02-2003 04:14									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

Asmo, could you tell us about the AI, i've read an example from Brad, about what the AI did, but he hada debugger, and could see what the AI was doing from the inside.
Does the AI appear to make any interesting decisions from the outside? You know, decisions that you really wouldn't expect from a computer.

	03-02-2003 02:37									#16
	AI question Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Brad said the AI thinks also during your turn.
Does it mean the longer it takes for you to play, the better its strategy?

	03-02-2003 03:23									#17
	Put an end to popups!

No, as i understand it, the AI will need a certain amount of time, when it's done, it's done. Even if you're still in your turn.
If you're done before the AI, you'll probably get a "Please wait..." message or something..

	03-02-2003 09:39									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Precisely. What happens is that you press teh turn button and a little hour glass shows up on the turn button. You can still interact with the UI (to various degrees depending on your machine) so you're never stuck looking at a "please wait.." dialog.

There are times pretty regularly when the AI will seem to do something unexpected. It's usually when a condition is met that the human players don't normally expect an AI to be looking for.

The AI spends a lot (most) of its CPU time LOOKING at the galactic map seeing what players are doing. It doesn't make a distinction between human and other AI players (they're all from the same base class).

Here's an example of where you can be at war with someone you have decent relations with:

I'm allied with the Altarians. The Altarians are preparing to go to war with the evil Drengin who I don't like either. But the Drengin are allied with the Torians who I have a good relationship with. The Drengin project that the Altarians are about to attack because it notes the number of transports and attack level ships that are in sectors that are no where near its own planets. the Drengin send out fighters to hang out near the transports. At some point the Drengin sneak attack the Altarians to destroy those transports. This in turn causes you to be at war with the Drengin due to your treaty which activates the alliance with the Torians.

That's one of the more unexpected things players have reported. Personally, I think people just have too low expectations for computer players. Who here would allow another player to put in invasion ships righ their planets and not take preemptive action? But people are so used to computer players being stupid about letting humans just put a bunch of ships around their planets and letting them get away with it.

But I've gotten a lot of email about this over the last couple of months. there are lots of other examples lke that which are much more subtle. Unfortunately it's subtle to the point where we're going to have to put up warning dialogs to help players. A player will complain that morale is dropping and they don't know why when in fact it's because other players are quietly destabilizing them. So we have to put in something so that you get warnings even if you're not putting any espionage into those players.

I love multiplayer games. I was pretty high up in the Warcraft III ladder and was the top ranked player in total Annihliation boneyards. So i try to make sure that the computer players play with some of the kinds of skills you'd see in multiplayer.

	03-02-2003 14:43									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: The AI spends a lot (most) of its CPU time LOOKING at the galactic map seeing what players are doing. It doesn't make a distinction between human and other AI players (they're all from the same base class).

Does that mean it can see the entire galaxy, or it just looks at what it can see?

quote: ...there are lots of other examples lke that which are much more subtle.

That's something i was sort of worried about, that there is this great AI, but that the player won't even notice much of it. But it seems it will certainly be noticed

	04-02-2003 03:57									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Part of the Story of Galactic Civilizations is that the other Empires spent ages mapping out the various parts of this area and as a result know where everything is.....

.....But there is a fog of war and I do believe it applies to them.....so I don't think they can see everything.....they have to send out scouts and what not.......or freighters......There is also espionage where they can get information about you that way too.....

	04-02-2003 03:58									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Boy that sure sounds confusing doesn't it? I mean they know where all of the planets are.....but not what you are CURRENTLY doing with ships and what-not...........

	04-02-2003 08:00									#22
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Planets are somewhat larger than ships.

Realisticaly, it's not much of an advantage to an experienced player because the player knows where all the stars are and the stars are distributed in clusters, not evently spread out.

	04-02-2003 09:10									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Here's a question. If the AI is busy thinking and strategising while you're having your turn, does this mean that the longer you take to have a turn, the cleverer the AI will be with its turn; that is to say, the longer you take each turn, the more you could be "punished" because the AI has had more time to "think"?

	04-02-2003 15:15									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy No, as i understand it, the AI will need a certain amount of time, when it's done, it's done. Even if you're still in your turn. If you're done before the AI, you'll probably get a "Please wait..." message or something..

i feel so ignored

	04-02-2003 15:46									#25
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy i feel so ignored

Did someone post?

-Jam