20-01-2003 18:19									#1
	Motion for Map Exchange and possible new vote on WAR Support Apolyton

As we discussed in the Chat thread, Pedrunn unfortunately did the diplo proposal the wrong way.

I'm asking the Minister of Diplomacy and the President to please try the deal on the current savegame again the right way around - it still should work as Locutus pointed out and if not - there's no harm.

If it works I'm asking for a new vote on the war by our Minister of Defense.

So, if IW is fast enough and agrees or Locutus (if he wins) then Pedrunn could do this today and tell us of the results.

	20-01-2003 18:39									#2
	Tired of ads?

I suggested that in the chat right before the turn end but nobody agreed not to. So I think from this point this is cheating since we did play ahead (sending the exchange map proposal).

	20-01-2003 18:41									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

no - i don't mean reload the game - i meant try the proposal again on the current savegame - just sending it again for the second time but the right way around, no additional money, no going back, just plain give me your map and i'll give you mine

	20-01-2003 18:44									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Its worth a try, we might get more information without having to start a whole new turn chat. The we can start some more informed polls.

	20-01-2003 18:46									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

you mean sending the same exchange map proposal the other way around? first the request and then the offer?

	20-01-2003 18:49									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

exactly! where's IW when we need him?!

	20-01-2003 18:52									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

here

	20-01-2003 18:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

or rather, at school, with no CtP2 access. So I can't try it out.

	20-01-2003 18:56									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

IW can i send the inversed proposal now?

	20-01-2003 18:57									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

you are not supposed to try it out - just give Pedrunn the permission to do so - I assume you already have indirectly with your post...

	20-01-2003 19:10									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

If you try you are going to be punished because you inflicted the Section 5 of the Article I of the constitution. Which is the main article. The Bill of Rights! The punishment will be enormous!!!

IW, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!













Was I too dramatic!?!

	20-01-2003 20:17									#13
	Got spare money?

If I become the new Diplomacy Minister, my first order of business will be to strongly urge Pedrunn to try another (reversed) map-exchange. That is, if IW doesn't beat me to it

	20-01-2003 21:01									#14
	Re: Motion for Map Exchange and possible new vote on WAR Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You said I could:

quote: Originally posted by mapfi I'm asking the Minister of Diplomacy and the President to please try the deal on the current savegame again the right way around - it still should work as Locutus pointed out and if not - there's no harm.

Anyway, Pedrunn can, sure.

Locutus, make up your mind. Will your first order of business be to appoint a delegate or do the urging? I'm unclear as to your policy

	20-01-2003 21:20									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If events require me to change my policies to suit them, I will not hesitate to do so. This merely proves my flexibity...

In case I would have to make something else my first order of business, appointing a delegate would become my second order of business, that goes without saying...


BTW, I think that should the map-exchange fails, we should also try to threaten the Austrians: there's no risk involved in threatening (single threats have no known downside), but it does (slightly) increase the chance of getting what we want. So I also want to ask Pedrunn and IW to consider this option.

	20-01-2003 21:38									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Locutus If events require me to change my policies to suit them, I will not hesitate to do so. This merely proves my flexibity...

or lack of conviction

	21-01-2003 00:44									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, the people of Lemuria didn't agree with you, H Tower. They gave the job to me

Pedrunn,
My official advise as new Minister of Diplomacy, Science and Trade is that you should attempt a map exchange with the Austrians as soon as possible. First request their map and then offer our map in return. If they refuse, theaten them to declare war (without actually doing so, of course (not yet)). It is imperative that this happens as soon as possible, so we know where we stand in determining what path to follow in the days and weeks ahead. (For this reason I won't poll if we should threaten, even though I feel this would ordinarily be better).

	21-01-2003 02:45									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So Pedrunn - any news?

	21-01-2003 04:10									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW, finally had a chance to look at the savegame and the diplomatic situation looks a lot better than I thought. I'm fairly certain we should still be able to get their map, even without threatening

	21-01-2003 09:16									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Okay so now we got their map, do we need to reassess the War poll?

	21-01-2003 22:39									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let's reasses after we take a good look at the map. So that we can be assured of our circumstances. I think that most people agree that we will be attacking Austria sometime in the near future... We do however need to wait until the time is right. (kind of the same stance that the CTP1 Egyptians are holding with the Greeks )

	21-01-2003 22:57									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

well i'm not sure if i like trying it again. I suppose it doesn't do any real harm but i'm not sure how likely this situation would be in RL - it is cheating a little bit. Part of the fun of guideing our nation is the mistakes, so maybe we should just chalk this down to experience and NEXT time do it the right way around? what you all think? I still think the war vote stands, but if another one wants to be done by enough of the people then i see no harm in that.

	22-01-2003 06:13									#23
	Got spare money?

what where was i when all this happened?