22-01-2003 14:07									#31
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quote: But I'd love to take him out to dinner and then settle the bill with him...

You better not taking me out as I'm in a very peculiar mood since a cpl months, known as getting rid of my frustrations insulting people and humiliating them- aka quitting smoking

	22-01-2003 15:27									#32
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Ye, I also have the impression the Italian school system is a bit sucky... even in big touristic cities it was damn hard for me to find a few people that knew how to speak English more or less! I mean, I can speak with Egyptian taxidrivers in English, but the Italians... uhuh, luckily my father knew a few words of Italian!


other than that maths are plain bs, complete and utter useless crap that doesn't make sense at all

physics, chemistry and biology are my kinda stuff though (I excelled at physics, but of course, it was not at university level, even though i did a scientific programme)

physics make sense, maths on the other hand don't have any logic for me

	22-01-2003 18:02									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus physics make sense, maths on the other hand don't have any logic for me

How can you understand physics without understanding math? Thats like enjoying a book without being able to read.

	22-01-2003 18:26									#34
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So what should be required, numbnuts?

History's out (don't need it); so's geography and English (most people don't have to write creatively for their jobs). Maybe we should just stop school after Grade 6 and get those lazy kids into the workforce.

Grade 11 math is not advanced knowledge. It's barely enough to do anything with at all.

	22-01-2003 18:33									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse The thing is, even though math is of vital importance to the functioning of modern society, most people don't need it. Math should have the same place as foreign languages in US schools. Have everyone take a couple years and they can take another two if they want to go into one of the few fields that advanced knowledge of math is required.

I don't know whether to or . I'll read the rest of the thread to see how this idea develops...

	22-01-2003 19:33									#36
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Well, maths sure do improve your analytical abilities, but some just can't seem to grip it you know...


It is very annoying to see that maths are always very important here in our schools, while languages are just a little extra, it's nice if you know a few words of english or german etc, but it seems like it's no mandatory knowledge, but it should be goddamnit!!!!

It's frustrating for those people who're not good at all in maths, they might be forced to redo their entire year because of something they're just **** at, while the rest isn't a problem for them!

We work with several options, such as maths-economics or economics-modern languages etc, but even when maths is not important in your case, ya can still be forced to redo your entire year because of failing maths... it's just pointless, since maths aren't worth jack **** in what you're doing. The stress shouldn't be on maths in my opinion, only when it is the major subject you are studying!

quote: How can you understand physics without understanding math? Thats like enjoying a book without being able to read

Not really, maths is entirely different, maths are abstract, not logical, for me it is based on some odd stuff I don't understand **** of!

physics, (of course you need a few basics of maths, i'm not dumb or anything) but it has more practical use, for example I liked to learn how certain things in nature worked, certain phenomenons that can be explained rationally , instead of just some unknown x and y, the x and y have a meaning such as velocity or stuff like that

no man, maths (and I mean the really complicated stuff, and of course they only ask you very complicated stuff in exams) are not at all like physics

	22-01-2003 19:39									#37
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Yes they are. They're almost entirely alike (says the person with a joint honours degree in math and physics).

Real physics isn't about "explaining" things in qualitative terms or listening to stephen hawking talking about black holes; it's about quantitative behaviour, and it sure as hell uses a lot of very complicated math. Half of the stuff I know about tensor analysis, calculus, complex numbers, trigonometry and linear algebra I learned in physics classes. Physics is about problem-solving, and its methods are mathematical. Until you get to that point, you're learning physics for laypeople (i.e. not actually learning it, but instead learning about it).

	22-01-2003 19:44									#38
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Wow, an idiotic lawsuit that is NOT from the USA!

Oh dear, are we spreading that particular societal trait too?

Sorry, world.

-Arrian

	22-01-2003 20:31									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit You better not taking me out as I'm in a very peculiar mood since a cpl months, known as getting rid of my frustrations insulting people and humiliating them- aka quitting smoking

Son, I could out-insult and out-humiliate you any day! It would make for a spectacular dinner. Entertaining for the other restaurant guests, at least.

	22-01-2003 20:31									#40
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What the Kitty says.

Physics is nothing more than applied math.

	22-01-2003 20:37									#41
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Physics is more than applied math, just like Illiad is more than a string of characters.

	22-01-2003 20:47									#42
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Not literally.

	22-01-2003 23:20									#43
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I remember there was a poster in one of my High School Math Teacher's room. It explained how much math would be required for various jobs and which type of math. The job with the most - Physicist. The job with the least - Radio DJ.

I wanted to be a Radio DJ so bad.

	22-01-2003 23:32									#44
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good shot

	22-01-2003 23:33									#45
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quote: Son, I could out-insult and out-humiliate you any day! It would make for a spectacular dinner. Entertaining for the other restaurant guests, at least.

I see Fez was right after all

	22-01-2003 23:35									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit I see Fez was right after all

Oh, what about?

I honestly think that is the first time such a phrase has ever been posted on Apolyton!

	24-01-2003 03:32									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger So what should be required, numbnuts? History's out (don't need it); so's geography and English (most people don't have to write creatively for their jobs). Maybe we should just stop school after Grade 6 and get those lazy kids into the workforce. Grade 11 math is not advanced knowledge. It's barely enough to do anything with at all.

Well, History/Government/Economics is good in that you know what is going on in society. English isn't just for creative writing. That is what Creative Writing (which I took for fun) is for. English is so that people know how to read and write. Some basic physics and/or biology is kinda useful. I think much of school should be electives so people can choose things like psychology or world affairs or geology or whatever.

Grade 11 math can very widely. Some people take Geometry (which I'm fine with everyone taking) but I know people who take Calculus in 11th grade who have no intention of going into a field that has anything to do with math. They just take it because they are pressured into doing it. Heck, that is why I am taking AP Calculus. I'm planning in going into Psychology and maybe Economics. Maybe be a Human Resources Director. I'm also going to be an army officer. No real use for Calculus there. It would be nice if I had a choice for AP Statistics since I can find a very good use in many fields for that class as well as in life in general, but my school unfortunantly does not offer it.

I'm not for stoping school after grade 6 since many people still have no idea what they want to do, but for people who do, they should have to take courses they'll have to use for.

There is a theory (which I partially believe) in that the government steers people to take courses in school for the jobs the government views are needed. They believe more engineers are needed so they try to get people to take more math. Not everyone wants to be engineers though.

	24-01-2003 03:54									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone I remember there was a poster in one of my High School Math Teacher's room. It explained how much math would be required for various jobs and which type of math. The job with the most - Physicist. The job with the least - Radio DJ.

I actually don't think that is true. While I do quite a lot of maths every day, it isn't terribly complicated maths because the theories are mostly already there and I just have to modify and apply them. So most of it is just tensor calculus, graded Lie algebras, noncomutative geometry, multidimensional integrals (in non-integer dimensions), and perturbative resummations and the like - easy!

	24-01-2003 04:09									#49
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IMO there isn't a single course taught in school (after 6th grade that is) that gives you any information that you really need to know to get through life. However, what it does teach you, is how the world works, and what options there are in the world that one could pursue. It is really the thought process behind the subject that is really learned and not so much what date in history the French started to be annoying (hehe), what a GDP is, what the chemical weight of Gold is, or even what 2+2 equals.

Well, if people don't want to take math, and instead, want to take art or music or something I'm all for. Gives me less competition and puts a little good into the world at the same time.

	24-01-2003 05:27									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh So most of it is just tensor calculus, graded Lie algebras, noncomutative geometry, multidimensional integrals (in non-integer dimensions), and perturbative resummations and the like - easy!

* DinoDoc runs away in terror

	24-01-2003 05:31									#51
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Math is extremely easy and it mostly busy work but past freshman year high school math its all done on a good graphing calculator....hell our teacher even taught it to us through our calculators....so its not knowing the material...its knowin what buttons to push

	24-01-2003 15:06									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Charlemagne120 Math is extremely easy and it mostly busy work but past freshman year high school math its all done on a good graphing calculator....hell our teacher even taught it to us through our calculators....so its not knowing the material...its knowin what buttons to push

This person has obviously never studied maths......

	24-01-2003 15:41									#53
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What should we define as 'necessary maths' for a modern society?

-graphing, x y sin cos etc (actually, I don't think I even remember this myself, I haven't thought of it for years)
-working knowledge of a geometric proof (this was a part of education for a thousand years)
-The basic equations (force/mass/acc, etc)
-Polynomial equations, basic algebra.

	24-01-2003 15:54									#54
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Well, I think it is all a plot to give people an aversion to anything to do with numbers so they don't realise how much they are paying on their credit cards and loans so the banks and financial institutions can keep making money.

	24-01-2003 16:07									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Charlemagne120 Math is extremely easy and it mostly busy work but past freshman year high school math its all done on a good graphing calculator....hell our teacher even taught it to us through our calculators....so its not knowing the material...its knowin what buttons to push

Quite the opposite, actually. Sure, calculators or computers are useful for graphing, numerical stuff, etcetera, but to understand what you're doing, you don't need a calculator at all. I'm studying physics (which includes good amounts of math), and I don't think I used a calculator at all during the exams of the last two years, nor do I think that it would have made any kind of difference.