23-01-2003 00:38									#1
	Turn 39 Suffering from ads?

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Alphabet researched.
- 23 gold cash, +3 per turn.

Urgent questions:
- none.

Military:
- Slash continues to explore along the west coast, goes 2 next.
- Start Zonk north (8) to escort our new settler.

Economy:
- Accept Vox's end of the Alphabet for Iron Working deal if Vox offers it in-game and offer our end either way.
- Set research to Writing.
- If Vox offers Iron Working in game, set the science slider to 100%. Otherwise, put the slider to zero. (We'll be bleeding 2gpt when we get our barracks so we'll burn through our surplus fairly quickly once that happens, and the gold might come in handy for upgrades on the off chance that Vox tries a doublecross and we have to research Iron Working ourselves.)

Diplomacy:
- Second deal Alphabet/Iron Working now possible. Diplomatic note sent by nbarclay.

Last edited by nbarclay on 23-01-2003 at 01:11

	23-01-2003 00:52									#2
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You forgot to mention that we're making +3 gpt, adding that...

	23-01-2003 01:14									#3
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The +3 per turn is at settings that won't be kept, but oh well.

I added orders for Zonk to head north (from Cyclone) to escort our new settler in addition to my usual economic matters. If one of our generals wants to countermand that, they are, of course, welcome to.

	23-01-2003 02:16									#4
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When is the settler estimated to arrive (8 turns now, but what after the city's growth)? Is there a chop to aid it

	23-01-2003 02:21									#5
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He already got a chop bonus. 8 shields are left, the next turns will give 3 shields each, so it will be ready in 3 turns.

	23-01-2003 02:22									#6
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cool

where is he going?

	23-01-2003 02:44									#7
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Site #7, the hill near the horses.

	23-01-2003 03:08									#8
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Zonk can meet the settler a tile outside of EotS. He doesn't have to get all the way to the city and then march back out w/the settler. #7 is generally in the same area as #3.

When would barbs start showing up if they aren't sedentary? Would we have seen them by now?

-Arrian

	23-01-2003 04:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Zonk can meet the settler a tile outside of EotS. He doesn't have to get all the way to the city and then march back out w/the settler. #7 is generally in the same area as #3. When would barbs start showing up if they aren't sedentary? Would we have seen them by now?

Looking back, I noticed that yes, we could wait one more turn to start Zonk moving if we want to. Even starting now, he couldn't get to EotS before the settler starts moving out, so delaying it a turn might be better as long as we don't forget. (Although if we want Zonk and the settler to take a peek from the top of the mountain west of EotS along their way, and I'm not sure whether that would be a good thing or not, Zonk needs to start this turn.)

Nathan

	23-01-2003 16:10									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian When would barbs start showing up if they aren't sedentary? Would we have seen them by now?

If barbarians were not set on sedentary, they really ought to have showed up by now.
IMHO, we've explored enough territory and waited long enough to safely assume that barbarians are sedentary. That means the only threat to our settlers is Voxian units, and all of Vox's units around lookout ridge and southward are kept under close watch.

	23-01-2003 21:52									#11
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Turn arrived.

The tech deal was not offered. The warrior+worker shuttle advanced in the jungle. All doubts about the sole military purpose of the road are gone by now.

	23-01-2003 21:54									#12
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Team Scores:

70 (+2) Gathering Storm
81 (+1) Demogyptica
68 (+1) Glory of War
77 (+2) Role Play
64 (+1) Vox Controli
62 (+1) Lux Invicta
82 (+2) Legoland

	23-01-2003 22:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph The tech deal was not offered. The warrior+worker shuttle advanced in the jungle. All doubts about the sole military purpose of the road are gone by now.

No they aren't. The road will have a mixed purpose, both to help their military, and to advance settlers.

DeepO

	23-01-2003 22:15									#14
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Let's go ahead and offer Alphabet (assuming we can - I hope they didn't make a deal with others behind our backs). Also, please check the tech costs for everything we can research so we can get an idea of what all else they have.

	23-01-2003 22:18									#15
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Let's put two and two together:

1. Tech deal refusal. Vox doesn't want us to get IW.

2. Extended road network. We're being invaded (now and later). Looking at it from Vox's point of view, they've got Warriors blocking our progress up North, where they're easily expanding into. Nice setup.

I'm not calling for a war. I'm hoping that everyone in GS has a healthy dose of mistrust for Vox by now. To support this, Calc II recently said that he thought Vox "was doing well, although it may be a bit too early to tell" (I do not remember where I read this statement).


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 23-01-2003 at 23:03

	23-01-2003 22:40									#16
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bah, there never was any real trust between us, and I don't think it will ever get there. But, as to calling them liars from now on is also somewhat overacting.

Look at it from their perspective: we know that if they offer us the deal, and we can accept it, we're faster then if we need to offer it to them. But from their side, it will look if we were just trying to get the most out of it... Sure, go ahead, and offer it on our turn, the delay will be minimal (it can take another 2 turns, if Vox 'forgets' to accept the deal), and we'll see if they can be trusted. They do not have the power to attack us, and won't have so in quite some time... and neither do we

Dom, Re: your #2: that's not exactly right. They are more or less blocking our progress North, but we are completely blocking their progress South. And, we have one warrior unshadowed, and a second close by. We're still in the military advantage, if you don't count the blocking of the isthmus.

DeepO

	23-01-2003 22:44									#17
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I think we should send Slash back north and let him shadow the road builders. Leave him at jungle tiles to suggest them, that we might pillage their precious jungle road any time. They show hostilities, we should too.

	23-01-2003 23:04									#18
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it may be a good idea to have Slash on a jungle road tile... without pilllaging of course (we might need the road later on )

DeepO

	23-01-2003 23:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Dom, Re: your #2: that's not exactly right. They are more or less blocking our progress North, but we are completely blocking their progress South. And, we have one warrior unshadowed, and a second close by. We're still in the military advantage, if you don't count the blocking of the isthmus.

Let's just say they've got more of a presence in our lands than we do in theirs, making our expansion plans much more of a headache. In light of this I think Sir Ralph's proposal is excellent.


Dominae

	23-01-2003 23:14									#20
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I agree with sending Slash back up north. If Vox reneges on the tech trade, I'd be more than half tempted to have Grog and Slash block the two-wide area of the isthmus and pillage the road in the process (since our WCs have no compelling need for road over grassland and Vox will probably fix it eventually anyhow).

But I'm still hoping things won't come to that.

Nathan

	23-01-2003 23:15									#21
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By the way, I got this from BetaHound last night; it didn't seem important enough to log, but just in case it matters to anyone.

quote: Nathan - we have received your recent correspondence and will get back to you shortly. .Beta.

	23-01-2003 23:16									#22
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Ok, I'm playing the turn now. All as described in the initial post (Offering Alphabet, setting science to 0%), except the order for Slash, who heads back north.

	23-01-2003 23:26									#23
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Did you catch my request that you check all tech costs to help us get a better idea of what Vox has?

	23-01-2003 23:31									#24
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I don't think Vox is lying, or trying to doublecross us this early in the game. I think Vox are just trying to delay us, just like last time. Maybe they spotted iron in the grassland that they're roading and they don't want us knowing so that we won't delay their efforts for getting iron.
I like Sir Ralph's idea. We should give them a constant reminder that their road is vulnerable to pillaging.

	23-01-2003 23:46									#25
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If I were vox, I would have planned for this moment to attack. Perhaps our fast research has caught them off guard and their preparations aren't complete? This is probably the only time in the game when they will have a military tech advantage over us and they are about to squander it. Mwahahaha

Luckily they can't have much of an immortal army and regardless it would take many turns for them to reach the front.

	23-01-2003 23:55									#26
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Did you catch my request that you check all tech costs to help us get a better idea of what Vox has?

Yes, I didn't forget it. Sorry, I was diverted by my wife, who still tries to treat my flu. I'm going to do the work now.

	24-01-2003 00:05									#27
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Research analysis:

Advance	Theoretical cost	Real cost	Does Vox have it?
Iron Working	144	132	yes
Mathematics	192	192	no
Writing	192	192	no
Warrior Code	72	72	no
Mysticism	96	96	no

	24-01-2003 00:15									#28
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Turn and screenshots sent. No power this time, it went straight down.

	24-01-2003 00:20									#29
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Oh darn, I just noticed, that I made a terrible mistake... Over all this research stuff I forgot to offer Alphabet to Vox, when I played the turn. . Bad, very bad. May be we can try to fix this by diplomacy. Again, sorry. May be I should stop to play while I'm ill.

	24-01-2003 00:23									#30
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Thanks. Looks like once the trade goes through (if it does), we and Vox will be even in tech for the moment, although they presumably are working on something.