23-01-2003 01:47									#1
	Rose to Admit Betting on Baseball! Suffering from ads?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0122/1496837.html

Looks like the deal is falling into place. Rose admits, gets reinstated. Like buttah for Selig (and Rose).

	23-01-2003 01:53									#2
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About fricking time... There is already so much pond scum in the baseball HOF, there is no reason that Rose shouldn't be in as well. What he did "BETWEEN THE LINES" has earned him his place in baseball history.

	23-01-2003 01:53									#3
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BOO!

Shoeless Joe Jackson has a better claim for getting into Cooperstown than Rose does.

	23-01-2003 01:55									#4
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This almost as exciting as...as...oh screw it, I'm too bored to make comparisons.

	23-01-2003 01:59									#5
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I say if Cobb can be in, so can Rose .

	23-01-2003 02:01									#6
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Now we'll see if Fay Vincent is correct.

(Fay said during a radio interview this past October that he believes that an admission by Rose will put him in jeopardy for perjury viz the IRS and the other gov't. agencies.)

I don't know if Shoeless Joe has a "better claim", but he isn't as tainted as Rose.

	23-01-2003 02:02									#7
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But Selig gets more popularity numbers if Rose goes in .

	23-01-2003 02:02									#8
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Friggin' travesty. The fact that he's an ******* really has nothing to do with it. No gambling is THE rule, because it threatens the integrity of the game (moreso even than steroid usage, though not by that much... they really need to work out a testing system for that).

-Arrian

	23-01-2003 02:04									#9
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Pete Rose was a gambler?

	23-01-2003 02:04									#10
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Yea, so?

How does gambling mitigate his playing days? The HoF is not a political institution... it honors the best PLAYERS.

	23-01-2003 02:04									#11
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I think Shoeless Joe should be in as well.

	23-01-2003 02:07									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yea, so? How does gambling mitigate his playing days? The HoF is not a political institution... it honors the best PLAYERS.

I think we should **** up the Baseball Hall of Fame. Everyone get together and vote in Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Troy Aikman. It'll drive them batty.

	23-01-2003 02:11									#13
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quote: How does gambling mitigate his playing days? The HoF is not a political institution... it honors the best PLAYERS.

...and managers. But anyway, the man broke the cardinal rule of the game, and you want him in the HOF? It's mind boggling to me.

The argument of "if this idjit's in, so should Rose" is garbage: two wrongs make a right, huh?

-Arrian

	23-01-2003 02:15									#14
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quote: But anyway, the man broke the cardinal rule of the game, and you want him in the HOF?

Yep.

The HoF isn't about petty things like that. It's about accomplishments.

	23-01-2003 02:44									#15
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quote: Originally posted by orange I think we should **** up the Baseball Hall of Fame. Everyone get together and vote in Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Troy Aikman. It'll drive them batty.

For a minute there i thought i was on Counterglow.

	23-01-2003 05:11									#16
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Horseshit. Utter horseshit.

Selig is a jackass, and this further cements that status. Trying to score PR points by letting in that corrupt ****er... jesus, how hard is it to understand? Bet on the game, you're out. Period.

	23-01-2003 05:31									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc BOO! Shoeless Joe Jackson has a better claim for getting into Cooperstown than Rose does.

You mean being the best overall player of all time?

Rose admitting what he denied for so long, just opens a slippery slope. Will he fess up to betting on Reds' games, or other bets that would be influenced by the results of Reds' games?

He's lied for a couple of decades, so now that he admits not only betting on the games, but lying about it for decades, why should we not expect that his "admission" won't be tailored and self-serving?

Joe Jackson clearly never participated in the Black Sox fix (that Comiskey was in on, sure as hell), all he did was not rat out other players.

Screw Rose, he got what he deserved. Bring Joe Jackson into the Hall, though.

	23-01-2003 05:36									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yea, so? How does gambling mitigate his playing days? The HoF is not a political institution... it honors the best PLAYERS.

Throwing games, playing with scores, playing (or not playing) hard as spoilers. It's an ironclad, cardinal rule. If the man couldn't be trusted to play or manage again, because of his flouting such a fundamental rule, he has no business being honored.

Joe Jackson, OTOH, clearly did NOT participate in any way in the Black Sox fix, and he could only be shown to have been in one conversation where the fix was discussed. All he did was fail to report something, that couldn't really have been reported, since both his manager and the team owner were up to their neck in it.

	23-01-2003 05:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian ...and managers. But anyway, the man broke the cardinal rule of the game, and you want him in the HOF? It's mind boggling to me. The argument of "if this idjit's in, so should Rose" is garbage: two wrongs make a right, huh? -Arrian

The cardinal rule is no betting?

I thought that it was "No crying in Baseball."

ACK!

	23-01-2003 07:03									#20
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quote: Throwing games, playing with scores, playing (or not playing) hard as spoilers.

What does that have to do with the HoF which honors the best PLAYERS?

	23-01-2003 07:11									#21
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Whoo, go Pete! I don't really care one way or the other, but at least now these Cincinnatians will finally shut up about it. (Or is it Cinncinnattians? Whatever.)

	23-01-2003 07:12									#22
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If Rose was a groundskeeper, nothing. All of what Rose did was an issue because he was a player and later a manager. It was conduct serious enough that he was (justifiably, not like the shafting Joe Jackson took for Comiskey) banned from professional baseball for life.

What part of that don't you get?

	23-01-2003 07:15									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc BOO! Shoeless Joe Jackson has a better claim for getting into Cooperstown than Rose does.

He took sat in congress with the other players while the discussed the scheme, took 5000 bucks and played like crap until the deal fell threw (first half of the series).

	23-01-2003 07:16									#24
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I get all of it... it JUST DOESN'T MATTER FOR THE HOF!

	23-01-2003 07:17									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat You mean being the best overall player of all time? Rose admitting what he denied for so long, just opens a slippery slope. Will he fess up to betting on Reds' games, or other bets that would be influenced by the results of Reds' games? He's lied for a couple of decades, so now that he admits not only betting on the games, but lying about it for decades, why should we not expect that his "admission" won't be tailored and self-serving? Joe Jackson clearly never participated in the Black Sox fix (that Comiskey was in on, sure as hell), all he did was not rat out other players. Screw Rose, he got what he deserved. Bring Joe Jackson into the Hall, though.

Rose is a worm and they should throw the book at him. It sends more of a message.

Jackson is not the saint that people paint him to be. there is a different player who had an even better claim to have his record cleared.

	23-01-2003 07:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by GP He took sat in congress with the other players while the discussed the scheme, took 5000 bucks and played like crap until the deal fell threw (first half of the series).

Jackson's stats during the series speak for themselves - he was perfect defensively, with no errors and no missed plays, he hit .375, (12 for 32), with 3 doubles, a homer, five runs scored and six RBI's, with only two strikeouts in 33 plate appearances.

His overall stats in the series were not only the best on both teams, but better than his season stats, which were at or near the top of the league across the board.

After the trial and the grand jury testimony both, it was clear that Jackson had been coached by Comiskey's law firm (who represented the players, at least in theory), and the testimony revealed that Jackson had no contact with any of the non-player principals involved in the fix, and that the only money he received was received from another player, to which Jackson replied "What the hell is this?."

Comiskey was a notoriously cheap bastard (Jackson was only paid $6,000 a year) and was known to be in on the fix. Nothing ever established more than that Jackson willingly received money for a fix that was a;ready in place with the owner, manager, and seven other players, and that Jackson then continued to play to the best of his ability.

	23-01-2003 07:42									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I get all of it... it JUST DOESN'T MATTER FOR THE HOF!

Repeated disregard for the rules DOES count. Rose deliberately forfeited his right to participate in any form in professional baseball.

	23-01-2003 07:45									#28
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The HoF isn't participating in any form of professional baseball! I have nothing against keeping Rose from being a manager of part of an organization again, but the HoF is to honor the best players! Rose is one of them, Jackson is another. They shouldn't be kept out of the Hall for things not relating to playing.

	23-01-2003 07:56									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Throwing games, playing with scores, playing (or not playing) hard as spoilers. What does that have to do with the HoF which honors the best PLAYERS?

It also honors managers and even broadcasters!

ACK!

	23-01-2003 07:58									#30
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But it ain't gonna honor Rose for that .

And players make up the vast majority of the Hall.