31-01-2003 18:47									#31
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Quite a few players use dial ups. As long as the host doesn't, you'll get a little bit more lag, but it isn't unplayable most of the time.

	31-01-2003 19:02									#32
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Mr usual start up strategy is
1) warrior (exploration)
2) warrior (exploration
3) Settler
4) Settler
5) wonder....(Usually great lib.)

I usually try and get a huge city base going as early as possible. Temples are usually built only once I have the required number of cities, till then I keep them at size three and use martial law for key cities that I want yo grow.

My early tech tree is towards monothesim, once i get that on with the crusaders and on with the conquest. The GL usually gives me the other techs as discovered by the AI

	31-01-2003 22:08									#33
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So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces).

No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise.
Is there documentation on their relative effects?

	01-02-2003 01:54									#34
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces). No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise. Is there documentation on their relative effects?

-Jrabbit,

For me it really depends on the Time. In the beginning, temples are necessary, markets are only nice. But later, after having built HG, Mike's Chapel, and running Lux to get WLT_D celebrations, temples can wait in new cities. Build MP, especially where there are trade specials and rivers. You get more gold and the city will be ready to celebrate at size three. Temples are no longer 'necessary' until size 5 to 9, depending on the Lux setting.

It also depends on your Intention. My strat is predicated on growing all cities and building up a sprawling trade-fat 'Civilization,' with many, many cities with enough size to contribute shields for vans and, later, SS parts...as a democracy. If the gov't is Fundy, everything changes. Then temples are a cash cow and they go to the head of the build list. If playing an early landing game, again it's temples, and markets are not even on the list, beyond the SSC.

So, I say it depends on the game and your strat. Automatically building temples first is not alway best.

Monk

	01-02-2003 03:54									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces). No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise. Is there documentation on their relative effects?

Well, in the early, early game, if you're going to build a non-wonder improvement it'll probably be a Temple.

BUT - once you have HG the first citizen is happy (barring the double unhappy HG bug, which I've never seen but I understand exists), so you don't need temples if the city doesn't get past size 2. Once you have Mikes, you don't need temples until size 5 or 6 or 7 (can't remember how many people Mikes makes content).

This presumes a luxury rate of 0. If luxuries are higher, and there are enough trade arrows in a city, a marketplace can make more people happy than a temple makes content (plus the additional cash the market generates). So, in games where I'm founding new cities and have HG/Mikes, AND/OR a decent luxury rate AND/OR am in Republic/Demo, I'll usually build a marketplace first out of the improvement list. Sometimes an aqueduct, even - I've had games where a city hits size 3 and celebrates up to size 8 without any happy improvements.

	01-02-2003 16:25									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Wow! 30 seconds!!!! I don't think I could get anywhere near that! I too am amazed at that kind of speed. SG[1]

One point that a SP expert might not appreciate is that it is only moving that need be done on your turn in a 3-way. All the other things you want (rush-buying, checking top 5 cities, looking at techs, expansion plans etc) to do can be done on the others' turns. If you know where you settlers and explorers are going it doesn't take long to move them.

	02-02-2003 03:08									#37
	Tired of ads?

I will admit that in the first 15 turns of the game, when you can have as little as 10 seconds before it's your turn again, that if I'm buying up my first settler, I'll do it during my turn, to avoid building somthing that I didn't want. I've been burned enough on that so I don't risk it anymore. But that is rare exception. And I still get burned later in the game at least once a game if I'm not fast enough and doing multiple buy ups.

	02-02-2003 05:24									#38
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quote: Originally posted by rah I will admit that in the first 15 turns of the game, when you can have as little as 10 seconds before it's your turn again, that if I'm buying up my first settler, I'll do it during my turn, to avoid building somthing that I didn't want. I've been burned enough on that so I don't risk it anymore.

Lol, we've all been there. I have played a lot of duels.......the turn goes on a minute, so you get impatient and rush the warrior/phalanx/diplo.......you get ready to change it........your finger is over the button.......BAM......it's your turn and your screwed.

	02-02-2003 06:09									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

That and moving city workers. You click one off and your turn starts before you place him back in production.

	03-02-2003 11:37									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yeah the last one pisses me off........

Marquis...i too play chess.....alas my chess isn't as good as my civ....

	03-02-2003 12:43									#41
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Marquis? - have I missed a name change?

SG[1]

	03-02-2003 14:26									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yeah that confused me too.........nice to see it's not just me on a Monday morning, but that SG is confused as well.

	03-02-2003 16:18									#43
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Ah MdS has popped up on another thread - mayhap warz confused the threads

SG[1]

	03-02-2003 18:16									#44
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces). No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise. Is there documentation on their relative effects?

As BM and STYOM already said, it depends on the stage of the game, and your strategy. Hoewever, I would base my decision not on wonders and discoveries, but on number of cities, amount of corruption, and long-term goals. If you build enough cities to have your first citizen be very unhappy and the city can generate at least two luxuries, a marketplace will change that very unhappy into a happy. A temple will only make him content. If the city has most of its arrows eaten by corruption, or you're trying to run with a zero luxury rate, the temple would probably be preferred. In ICS Fundy/Commie mode, a defensive unit would be preferred to either structure.

	03-02-2003 19:06									#45
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Yes, if I'm running in monarchy, I REFUSE to play with anything other than 0 Lux, so temples are the prefered choice. So by the time I'm thinking of celebrating in REP, the temples are already built and i'm thinking markets.

	04-02-2003 06:32									#46
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yeah i meant ramses II , its been a rough monday