23-01-2003 20:39									#1
	Extensive Analysis of Madrid Build Options... Increase Your PM Length

BARRACKS PLAN (PLAN A):

Current WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game) - 5 shields, 2 food, 5 trade
Finish Spearman (1 more turn)
Start Barracks
6 turns of Barracks production (30 shields)
Pop expands to 3
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish Barracks in 2 turns (10 shields)
Start Worker
Finish Worker in 2 turns (10 shields)
Pop drops to 2
Start Veteran Spearman
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game) - 5 shields, 2 food, 5 trade
2 turns of Veteran Spearman production (10 shields)
Pop expands to 3
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish Veteran Spearman in 2 turns (10 shields)

RESULT 14 turns after Spearman completion:
- Barracks (completed 8 turns after spearman)
- Worker (completed 10 turns after spearman)
- Veteran Spearman (completed 14 turns after spearman)
- Spending 1 tax for Barracks upkeep
- Builds Veteran units
- Need 20 food to expand population (have 8 in storage)
- Unrest trouble at Pop 4

Start Settler
3 turns of Settler production (15 shields)
Pop expands to 4 (need to control for unrest)
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland) - 8 shields, 1 food, 7 trade
1 turn of Settler production (8 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 7 shields, 3 food, 8 trade
Finish Settler in 1 turn (7 shields)
Pop drops to 2
CYCLE START
Start Veteran Spearman
New WF: #3 (cows), #20 (wheat) - 3 shields, 4 food, 6 trade
4 turns of Veteran Spearman production (12 shields)
Pop expands to 3
New WF: #3 (cows), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat) - 4 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish Veteran Spearman in 2 turns (8 shields)
Start Settler
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
3 turns of Settler production (15 shields)
Pop expands to 4 (need to control for unrest)
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland) - 8 shields, 1 food, 7 trade
1 turn of Settler production (8 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 7 shields, 3 food, 8 trade
Finish Settler in 1 turn (7 shields)
Pop drops to 2
CYCLE END
Setter+Spearman Cycle: 11 turns
Turns of Cycle in Unrest Risk: 2/11

RESULT 30 turns after spearman completion:
- Barracks (completed 8 turns after spearman)
- Worker (completed 10 turns after spearman)
- Veteran Spearman (completed 14 turns after spearman)
- Settler (completed 19 turns after spearman)
- Veteran Spearman (completed 25 turns after spearman)
- Settler (completed 30 turns after spearman)
- Experienced 4 turns of unrest trouble (impact on timing?)
- Spearman+Settler cycle is 11 turns
- Spending 1 tax for Barracks upkeep
- Builds Veteran units
- Need 20 food to expand population
- Unrest trouble at Pop 4
- Made 192 trade over 30 turns
- Spent 22 gold in taxes over 30 turns
- Net Income 170 over 30 turns

	23-01-2003 20:39									#2
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TEMPLE PLAN (PLAN B):

Current WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game) - 5 shields, 2 food, 5 trade
Finish Spearman (1 more turn)
Start Temple
Finish Temple in 6 turns (30 shields)
Pop expands to 3
Start Worker
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish Worker in 2 turns (10 shields) - 8/20 food
Pop drops to 2
New WF: #3 (cows), #20 (wheat) - 3 shields, 4 food, 5 trade
Start Spearman
3 turns of Spearman production (9 shields)
Pop expands to 3
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
1 turn of Spearman production (5 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland) - 6 shields, 2 food, 6 trade
Finish Spearman in 1 turn (6 shields)
Start Spearman
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
2 turns of spearman production (10 shields)

RESULT by 14 turns after Spearman Completion:
- Temple (completed 6 turns after spearman)
- Worker (completed 8 turns after spearman)
- Spearman (completed 12 turns after spearman)
- Spearman (10/20 shields 14 turns after spearman)
- Spending 1 tax for Temple upkeep
- Builds Regular Units
- Need 20 food to expand population (14 food in storage)
- Unrest trouble at Pop 6

Finish spearman in 2 turns (10 shields)
Pop expands to 4
Start Settler
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat) - 6 shields, 4 food, 8 trade
Finish settler in 5 turns (30 shields)
Pop expands to 5
Pop drops to 3
Start Spearman
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish spearman in 4 turns (20 shields)
Start Settler
1 turn of settler production (5 shields)
Pop expands to 4
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland) - 6 shields, 4 food, 8 trade
3 turns of settler production (18 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 7 shields, 3 food, 8 trade
Finish Settler in 1 turn (7 shields)
Setter+Spearman Cycle: 8-9 turns
Turns of Cycle in Unrest Risk: None
1 extra spearman produced before start of cycle

RESULT by 30 turns after Spearman Completion:
- Temple (completed 6 turns after spearman)
- Worker (completed 8 turns after spearman)
- Spearman (completed 12 turns after spearman)
- Spearman (completed 16 turns after spearman)
- Settler (completed 21 turns after spearman)
- Spearman (completed 25 turns after spearman)
- Settler (completed 30 turns after spearman)
- Experienced NO turns of unrest trouble
- Spearman+Settler cycle is 8-9 turns
- Spending 1 tax for Temple upkeep
- Builds Regular Units
- Need 20 food to expand population
- Unrest trouble at Pop 6
- Made 207 trade over 30 turns
- Spent 24 gold in taxes over 30 turns
- Net Income 183 over 30 turns

	23-01-2003 20:40									#3
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GRANARY PLAN (PLAN C):

Current WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game) - 5 shields, 2 food, 5 trade
Finish Spearman (1 more turn)
Start Granary
6 turns of Granary production (30 shields)
Pop Expands to 3
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game) - 7 shields, 1 food, 6 trade
3 turns of that WF (21 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish Granary in 2 turns (10 shields)
Start Worker
Finish Worker in 2 turns (10 shields)
Pop drops to 2
Start Settler
New WF: #3 (cows), #20 (wheat) - 3 shields, 4 food, 6 trade
1 turn of Settler production (3 shields)
Pop expands to 3

RESULT BY 14 turns after Spearman Completion:
- Granary (completed 11 turns after Spearman)
- Worker (completed 13 turns after Spearman)
- Settler (3/30 shields 14 turns after Spearman)
- Spending 1 tax for Granary upkeep
- Builds Regular Units
- Need only 10 food to expand population (3 in storage)
- Unrest trouble at Pop 4

New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
2 turns of settler production (10 shields)
Pop expands to 4 (need to control for unrest) - ****1 food stored****
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 7 shields, 3 food, 8 trade
Finish settler in 3 turns (21 shields)
Pop drops to 2
Pop expands to 3
CYCLE STARTS
Start Spearman
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
3 turns of Spearman production (15 shields)
Pop expands to 4 (need to control for unrest) - ****2 food stored****
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat) - 6 shields, 4 food, 8 trade
Finish Spearman in 1 turn (6 shields)
Start Settler
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #14 (forest) - 9 shields, 0 food, 7 trade
2 turns of settler production (18 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat) - 6 shields, 4 food, 8 trade
1 turn of settler production (6 shields)
Pop Expands to 5 (Will need a specialist this next turn)
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat), *SPEC* - 6 shields, 2 food, 8 trade
Finish Settler in 1 turn (6 shields)
Pop drops to 3
Start Spearman
CYCLE ENDS
Setter+Spearman Cycle: 8 turns
Turns of Cycle in Unrest Risk: 5/8

RESULT BY 30 turns after Spearman Completion:
- Granary (completed 11 turns after Spearman)
- Worker (completed 13 turns after Spearman)
- Settler (completed 19 turns after Spearman)
- Spearman (completed 23 turns after Spearman)
- Settler (completed 27 turns after Spearman)
- Spearman (15/20 shields 30 turns after Spearman)
- Spearman+Settler cycle is 8 turns
- Experienced 8 turns of unrest trouble
- Spearman+Settler cycle is 8 turns
- Spending 1 tax for Granary upkeep
- Builds Regular Units
- Need only 10 food to expand population
- Unrest trouble at Pop 4
- Made 200 trade over 30 turns
- Spent 19 gold in taxes over 30 turns
- Net Income 181 over 30 turns

	23-01-2003 20:40									#4
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GRANARY+TEMPLE PLAN (PLAN D):

Current WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game) - 5 shields, 2 food, 5 trade
Finish Spearman (1 more turn)
Start Granary
6 turns of Granary production (30 shields)
Pop Expands to 3
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game) - 7 shields, 1 food, 6 trade
3 turns of that WF (21 shields)
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
Finish Granary in 2 turns (10 shields)
(note that 3 turns of forest and 2 turns of wheat gets us 1 more trade and 1 extra shield (wasted) than 2 turns of forest, 2 of shielded grassland, and 1 of wheat - it's all about that 1 extra trade, baby!)
Start Worker
Finish Worker in 2 turns (10 shields)
Pop drops to 2
Start Temple
New WF: #3 (cows), #20 (wheat) - 3 shields, 4 food, 6 trade
1 turn of Temple production (3 shields)
Pop expands to 3

RESULT BY 14 turns after Spearman Completion:
- Granary (completed 11 turns after Spearman)
- Worker (completed 13 turns after Spearman)
- Temple (3/30 shields 14 turns after Spearman)
- Spending 1 tax for Granary upkeep
- Builds Regular Units
- Need only 10 food to expand population (3 in storage)
- Unrest trouble at Pop 4

New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 5 shields, 4 food, 7 trade
2 turns of temple production (10 shields)
Pop expands to 4 (need to control for unrest) - ****1 food stored****
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #20 (wheat) - 7 shields, 3 food, 8 trade
Finish temple in 3 turns (21 shields)
Pop expands to 5
CYCLE STARTS
Start Spearman
New WF: #3 (cows), #4 (forest), #5 (game), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat) - 8 shields, 3 food, 9 trade
Finish Spearman in 3 turns (24 shields)
Start Settler
1 turn of settler production (8 shields)
Pop expands to 6 (need to control for unrest) - ****2 food stored****
New WF: #3 (cows), #5 (game), #7 (grassland), #14 (forest), #18 (s-grassland), #20 (wheat) - 8 shields, 3 food, 10 trade
Finish settler in 3 turns (24 shields)
Pop drops to 4
Pop expands to 5 - ****1 food stored****
CYCLE ENDS
Setter+Spearman Cycle: 7 turns
Turns of Cycle in Unrest Risk: 3/7

RESULT BY 30 turns after Spearman Completion:
- Granary (completed 11 turns after Spearman)
- Worker (completed 13 turns after Spearman)
- Temple (completed 19 turns after Spearman)
- Spearman (completed 22 turns after Spearman)
- Settler (completed 26 turns after Spearman)
- Spearman (completed 29 turns after Spearman)
- Settler (8/30 shields 30 turns after Spearman)
- Experienced 6 turns of unrest trouble
- Spearman+Settler cycle is 7 turns
- Spending 2 tax for Granary and Temple upkeep
- Builds Regular Units
- Need only 10 food to expand population
- Unrest trouble at Pop 6
- Made 222 trade over 30 turns
- Spent 30 gold in taxes over 30 turns
- Net Income 192 over 30 turns

	23-01-2003 20:41									#5
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COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS

Barracks Plan (Plan A):
Built in 30 Turns:
Barracks, Worker, 2 Veteran Spearmen, 2 Settlers
Settler Times: 19 turns, 30 turns, 41 turns, 52 turns, etc.
Cycle Length thereafter: 11 turns
Net Income over 30 turns: 170
Avg Income thereafter: 6.73/turn (-1 tax) = 5.73/turn

Temple Plan (Plan B):
Built in 30 Turns:
Temple, Worker, 3 Spearmen, 2 Settlers
Settler Times: 21 turns, 30 turns, ~39 turns, ~48 turns, etc.
Cycle Length thereafter: 8-9 turns
Net Income over 30 turns: 183
Avg Income thereafter: ~7.44/turn (-1 tax) = ~6.44/turn

Granary Plan (Plan C):
Built in 30 Turns:
Granary, Worker, 1.75 Spearman, 2 Settlers
Settler Times: 19 turns, 27 turns, 35 turns, 43 turns, etc.
Cycle Length thereafter: 8 turns
Net Income over 30 turns: 181
Avg Income thereafter: 7.38/turn (-1 tax) = 6.38/turn

Granary+Temple Plan (Plan D):
Built in 30 Turns:
Granary, Worker, Temple, 2 Spearmen, 1.27 Settlers
Settler Times: 26 turns, 33 turns, 40 turns, 47 turns, etc.
Cycle Length thereafter: 7 turns
Net Income over 30 turns: 192
Avg Income thereafter: 9.43/turn (-2 tax) = 7.43/turn
*NOTE: Cycle could be significantly shortened if we can get 1-2 luxuries to Madrid due to currently lost shields then being more efficiently used

TO SUMMARIZE...
Plan A (Barracks) gets us veteran units, but the least money and the longest cycle length. Should only be chosen if veteran units are worth the loss in both funds and REX speed.
Plan B (Temple) gets us a decent cycle length and decent funds along with a bonus spearman. A middle-of-the-road choice and can only be sustained for probably 2-3 settlers before needing to switch priorities.
Plan C (Granary) gets us a good cycle length and decent funds and doesn't even slow us down (in fact, it's the fastest for the first 4 settlers at least), but has less net income than Plan D.
Plan D (Granary+Temple) gets us the most money and the shortest cycle length (even shorter if we can connect a luxury or two...), but takes a little while to catch up to Plan C.

Just building additional military units is equivalent to Plan A. It's only worth it if those military units are needed so badly that the loss in income (exacerbated by the upkeep cost of the units if that becomes an issue) and loss in REX speed is worth it.

Since I personally think that GoW only has their one lousy conscript warrior and their one lousy regular warrior on this side of the whole continent (and likely don't have much beyond those for a ~20 turn trek down here), wasting our time building a barracks or a bunch of military units right now only serves to shoot ourselves in the feet.... c'mon, GoW isn't that scary... they don't have enough force yet to hurt anyone... and if we REX like we SHOULD, they'll never have the force to hurt US... which, of course, is the strategy we wanted to follow anyways, remember?

As for whether to follow Plan B, Plan C, or Plan D... they each have merits. Please discuss.

	23-01-2003 20:55									#6
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I prefer B, but I would like an estimate of the time when all cities will be connected.

	23-01-2003 21:34									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT I prefer B, but I would like an estimate of the time when all cities will be connected.

hmmm... Oliverfa?

	23-01-2003 22:16									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I also like plan B. FYI, Madrid gets a 2 shields bonus every time it grows. I don't know if that was factored into the analysis.

Pamplona isn't getting it. I never noticed it before this game. It must be a bonus just for the capital.

	23-01-2003 22:24									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Two thumbs up and a big cheer for the Governor of Madrid. A most excellent analysis, Señor Clemente! The governors of Pamplona and Barcelona have an excellent role model.

My thoughts on the plans:

A) Cycle time is too long, and is not profitable enough to keep our wise men happy. This plan is only needed if we feel war is imminent, which it is not. We have non-agression pacts in place and it would be very difficult for ND, GoW, or Lux to wage war on us this early.

B) Good cycle time, good income, and produces enough units to pair with the settlers and have some extra for garrisons or patrol duty. Also has cultural benefits which are not mentioned.

C) Most agressive REX plan, but skimps a bit on defense. Cycle time is not really much advantage over B.

D) As lovely as the cycle time and income are, I cannot stomach a 26 turn wait for the first settler.

My preference is unchanged - build the Temple (plan B). It may be asking a bit much, but I would love to have the city governors and the slave master coordinate their efforts more so that we can see:
1) a schedule for improvements;
2) a road network schedule;
3) how the city plans are effected by worker improvements;
4) how the city plans are affected by the return of our explorers.

That's not asking much, is it?

	23-01-2003 22:52									#10
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EXCELLENT work

Plan B is clearly the best route for Spain.

I'd like to see if the Governors of Pamplona and Barcelona can come up with something similiar.

--Togas

	24-01-2003 01:10									#11
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I'm working on a few spreadsheets that look at these plans. So far, I have found a flaw in Plan C.

I'll try to publish these ASAP

Eta Tamali

	24-01-2003 01:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by E_T So far, I have found a flaw in Plan C.

That's forgivable, after all, we don't know Mathematics yet.

	24-01-2003 03:10									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos hmmm... Oliverfa?

Any road plan from Pamplona to Madrid must pass at least by one mountain tile. That's 9 turns. To avoid roading two mountain tiles we shall road the following tiles starting from Pamplona (sorry, no time for doing a pic) NE, E, E, SE. That's 3+9+3+3=18 turns with one worker. Not counting the time needed to move the worker from one tile to another.

	24-01-2003 03:19									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I f we build military units, do you count the fact that they maintain order if in a city (even a warrior can act as police for maintaining order)

Barracks option doesn't mention the idea of upgrading units. We have several warriors that we should upgrade to sword as feasable. Of course we need to connect to iron to do so....

I lean towards c or d. what would d look like if you switched the order?

What we need is some medium term goals set (by our lord Togas I would assume) for where we wish to be. Are we lookign to be a military powerhouse? Offence or defence? Production and or money powerhouse? Culture?

People say don't expect any sort of rush at this point? Guess what - If this was a solo game I would have popped out 2 warriors, then a barracks, then a second city, followed by warriors. By now I suspect I would have only 2 or 3 cities, but probably 15 warriors and a barracks to upgrade them in. Send 10 sword out now and we would concure any 2 civs we like, adding all their hard work into our civ. I suspect this is what GoW is doing, and once they connect to Iron everybody better watch out.

	24-01-2003 03:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing People say don't expect any sort of rush at this point? Guess what - If this was a solo game I would have popped out 2 warriors, then a barracks, then a second city, followed by warriors. By now I suspect I would have only 2 or 3 cities, but probably 15 warriors and a barracks to upgrade them in. Send 10 sword out now and we would concure any 2 civs we like, adding all their hard work into our civ. I suspect this is what GoW is doing, and once they connect to Iron everybody better watch out.

No, they're not. At least not according to the in-game military advisor, who was saying until just recently that we were stronger than them, and now we are average compared to them.

	24-01-2003 04:15									#16
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You know, I didn’t understand one word of those plans so I voted for temples to give us more culture and make our boundaries expand. We need one in Pamplona, and to build a road to the silk in Barcelona.

	24-01-2003 05:25									#17
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quote: Originally posted by E_T I'm working on a few spreadsheets that look at these plans. So far, I have found a flaw in Plan C. I'll try to publish these ASAP Eta Tamali

I'm sure there's probably a few errors SOMEWHERE. I did this whole thing by hand while I was short on sleep

That said, even given margin for error, I'm sure they're pretty close.

Someone mentioned the shield bonus when pop increases... I havne't noticed it in Madrid so far, but I could have missed it.... (is that an Industrious thing?)

	24-01-2003 07:39									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Impressive, Arnelos. Truly. I'm sorta glad that you aren't Prez in the SPDG.

Hmmm... as originally stated, I still support B. (how's that for a "secret, undisclosed" redundancy) I, personally, don't mind a longer wait for a settler, so D wouldn't be so bad either.

	24-01-2003 07:54									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Someone mentioned the shield bonus when pop increases... I havne't noticed it in Madrid so far, but I could have missed it.... (is that an Industrious thing?)

Yes, Size 7-12, 1 additional Sheild. Size 13+, 2 additional shields.

We get the added Trade bonus...

Eta Tamali

	24-01-2003 08:40									#20
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Yes, Size 7-12, 1 additional Sheild. Size 13+, 2 additional shields. We get the added Trade bonus... Eta Tamali

That's what I thought.

	24-01-2003 22:45									#21
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From my scenarios I ran I noticed Madrid is getting a 2-shield bonus every time its population increases now. I don't know why this is, and I've never noticed it before. The capital seems to be the only city so lucky, but I am fairly sure you can count on another 2 shields beyond what the city is currently producing on each turn it's pop increases.

And we are not Industrious so you've got me as to why it happens, but I like it.

	24-01-2003 22:53									#22
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I found an example. Señor Dejon's Turn Log is on the 3rd page back.

In the screenshots for 3600 BC, Madrid is just start to produce a Warrior (no shields at all that turn in the queue but 3 per turn for the city)

3550 BC is lost to public record. Togas did that turn, but we still know that Warrior has 3 shields in the queue's box.

3500 BC screenshot show that the queue was switched to settler. However, instead of there being 6 shields in the queue's box, there are 8. The city started to work the wheat tile so it was still producing only 3 shields a turn, but 5 were added.

	24-01-2003 23:22									#23
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser I found an example. Señor Dejon's Turn Log is on the 3rd page back. In the screenshots for 3600 BC, Madrid is just start to produce a Warrior (no shields at all that turn in the queue but 3 per turn for the city) 3550 BC is lost to public record. Togas did that turn, but we still know that Warrior has 3 shields in the queue's box. 3500 BC screenshot show that the queue was switched to settler. However, instead of there being 6 shields in the queue's box, there are 8. The city started to work the wheat tile so it was still producing only 3 shields a turn, but 5 were added.

huh... no clue why that's happening if it is...

I'll have to watch Madrid over the next few turns and if this is true, I'll change my plans to accomodate it.

Sounds like a bug.

	24-01-2003 23:40									#24
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I have a New Plan

Build the Worker First then the Granary 2nd. Have the worker move to the forrest at tile #14 and chop it down (2 turns to move, 10 to chop), it will add the 10 Shields to the Granery build. Plus, we also need that forrest cit, to bring Water to Barcelona for it's growth (we don't want to cut down the Game tile).

I'll provide specific here shortly, but we can have our cake and eat it too.

Eta Tamali

	24-01-2003 23:45									#25
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quote: Originally posted by E_T I have a New Plan Build the Worker First then the Granary 2nd. Have the worker move to the forrest at tile #14 and chop it down (2 turns to move, 10 to chop), it will add the 10 Shields to the Granery build. Plus, we also need that forrest cit, to bring Water to Barcelona for it's growth (we don't want to cut down the Game tile). I'll provide specific here shortly, but we can have our cake and eat it too. Eta Tamali

Good. I'd work on that myself, but I think I'll let you do this one for me

	25-01-2003 00:12									#26
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Build the Worker First then the Granary 2nd. Have the worker move to the forrest at tile #14 and chop it down (2 turns to move, 10 to chop), it will add the 10 Shields to the Granery build. Plus, we also need that forrest cit, to bring Water to Barcelona for it's growth (we don't want to cut down the Game tile).

You might also think of getting the forest directly SW of the city cut down so you can irrigate the cow bonus eventually. That's another 10 shields for something... depending on when it is done.

	25-01-2003 01:41									#27
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This plan uses a specialist for 3 turns in 20 turns from now.

Turn 0 (now-last save): Foodbox (FB): 8; WF 3-5; Food Surplus (FS): 2; Trade (T): 5; Shields Accumulated (SA): 0; Sheild Output (SO): 5
Currently building Temple as a place holder

Turn 1 (next save) - Change build to worker
WF 3-5; FB: 10; FS: 2; SA: 5; SO: 5; T: 5

Turn 2 - Worker built, start on Granary - Move Worker to Tile #14 (2 turns to get there)
WF 20; FB=12; FS=4; SA=0; SO=1; T=4

Turn 3: WF 20; FB=16; FS=4; SA=1; SO=1; T=4

Turn 4 (size 2): WF 3-20; FB=0; FS=4; SA=2; SO=3; T=5
Worker starts to cut the Forrest at Tile #14, 10 turns to complete.

Turn 5: WF 3-20; FB=4; FS=4; SA=5; SO=3; T=5

Same for turns 6 to 8.

Turn 9 (size 3): WF 3-5-20; FB=0; FS=4; SA=17; SO=5; T=6

Same for turns 10 to 13

Turn 14 (size 4): WF 3-4-5-18; FB=0; FS=1; SA=42+10(forrest); SO=8; T=7
The Worker completes cutting of the Forrest, which give Madrid 10 more sheilds. It can now start Irrigating, to start the irrigation that will go to Barcelona (that is if the Slavemaster wants that). Will also require Lux Tax, until the Spearman is built.

Turn 15 (Granary built, Spearman next): WF 3-4-5-20; FB=1; FS=3; SA=0; SO=7; T=7

Turn 17: WF 3-5-18-20; FB=7; FS=4; SA=14; SO=6; T=7

Turn 18 (Spearman built, Settler next): WF 3-5-18-20; FB=11; FS=4; SA=0; SO=6; T=7
The Lux Tax can now be removed.



I'm having problems with this box for the moment and I'll finish this as soon as I reboot, but the city will increase to size 5 and the settler will be built in 5 turns. This plan also calls for one more Spear/settler pair, before it build a temple and maybe a barracks. Afterwards, it will be building Vet Spear in 2 turns time.

I'll try to post the spreadsheet, but The Coreldraw is on the other Box. I'll also send this sheet to Arnelos, but that will also have to wait until after 5PM.

[EDIT]
I've got the chart up, here it is.



I'll edit some more to this in a bit.




Eta Tamali

Last edited by E_T on 25-01-2003 at 02:53

	25-01-2003 01:43									#28
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser From my scenarios I ran I noticed Madrid is getting a 2-shield bonus every time its population increases now. I don't know why this is, and I've never noticed it before.

Maybe the game computes the population increasing before computing the production, so the extra population already works a new tile. However it doesn't explain why only the capital city gets this bonus

	25-01-2003 02:36									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Crousto Maybe the game computes the population increasing before computing the production, so the extra population already works a new tile. However it doesn't explain why only the capital city gets this bonus

Senor Crousto, in the example I gave, the new tile that was being worked did not produce any shields, only food and commerce. Therefore, the shields added to queue should have remained the same 3 per turn that were being produced before the population increase. Interestingly, it reverted back to 3 per turn after the one turn of yielding 5. This is not an isolated incident for Madrid, it has been happening ever time the pop. increased since the game began.

	25-01-2003 03:10									#30
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As I said... the only way we're going to know for sure is to watch Madrid closely. If the next time the pop goes up we get 2 shields mysteriously out of nowhere, I'll make a note of it on the public forums as well as in here... it's possible that what happened was that someone accidentally turned on double-production on a turn somewhere back and no-one noticed. It's a bug.