24-01-2003 04:03									#1
	Pamplona Plans (Builds, Tile usage) Suffering from ads?

Señor ruby_maser, I would like to talk about your plans in the coming years for Pamplona.

With the growth to size 4, Pamplona will be able to complete it's Settler in 2 turns. At that time, it will still be a size 2 city, with decent growth. Will it reach size 5 before building another settler? Will it be necessary to employ entertainers in the city?

With the recent growth, you will have many options with what to do with your citizenry for the next two turns. Will you concentrate on growth? (If you do, you can be back to size 3 very quickly.) Or will you limit growth in order to build other things? Will you send anyone to collect the precious gold in the nearby mountain?

I ask these things because, as Lord Togas' Most Trusted Advisor, I must be able to answer his questions about when to expect changes in the cities of Spain, and how the policies of his governors are affecting our civilization's progress. For example, it has come to my attention that with the wealth of Gold Mountain backing them, our wise men could complete their current task in less time.

As I'm sure you can appreciate, such news is important to Lord Togas, and instrumental in our dealings with the other civilizations of Apolyton.

	24-01-2003 05:30									#2
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Does Pamplona have a temple? If not, it will experience unrest at size 4.

	24-01-2003 05:36									#3
	Remove this text

It now has 2 mil units keeping the population in order and the settler will be out in 2 turns ... when the city will shrink to 2.

It should then grow back to size 3 about 3 turns later.

the current warrior will keep the peace, and the new spear from madrid will also keep the peace when it grows to 4 again.

Build settlers, oh little town of Pamplona!

--Togas

	24-01-2003 06:05									#4
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It’s a good thing that rubber won’t be discovered for thousands of years yet

	24-01-2003 08:40									#5
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I'm working on a long term prospectus for the city. Unfortunately, I have to factor in corruption so I'm trying to familiarize myself with the formulas and get something reliable. I also need to run some scenarios, but as Lord Togas clarified, I was under the impression the city would stay in REX for awhile.

It still could be advantageous to look into a temple to let the city grow unfettered by civil disorder. I may also look into generating more workers and try to coordinate with Señor Oliverfa to get a reasonable estimate of when luxuries might be available to the city.

	24-01-2003 08:56									#6
	Re: Pamplona Plans (Builds, Tile usage) Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by dejon With the recent growth, you will have many options with what to do with your citizenry for the next two turns. Will you concentrate on growth? (If you do, you can be back to size 3 very quickly.) Or will you limit growth in order to build other things? Will you send anyone to collect the precious gold in the nearby mountain?

Without doing any analysis, I can look at Pamplona and say that, if REX and more settlers remains a priority, growth will be the first. There may be hidden incentive at times to micromanage the WFs to better time builds, though.

In reference to Gold Mountain, that is not a decision I can make. I don't have access to the current game, and a decision like that would have to be made on the fly if research was suddenly deemed a priority. I can't know the impact (in number of turns) that it will have on speeding up research unless someone would care to enlighten my as to the amount of gold required for each tech (and I think there is a hard number for each one). Obviously, there will come a time when working Gold Mountain will be on a permanent basis, but REX comes first unless the community at large decides otherwise.

	24-01-2003 09:33									#7
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Ideally, you should only use gold mountain if:

1. We're rushing the production in Pamplona and you want to maximize trade for the turn
2. You're trying to limit growth (to prevent unrest) and there's no difference in production between another tile and gold mountain (but gold mountain obviously gives more trade).

For now, at least, those are its only uses.

	24-01-2003 20:34									#8
	Plan #1: Settler/Temple/Worker/Settler... Remove this text

Year / Size / Queue / Shields / Food / Gold / Notes

2230.....4.....Settler.......21........0.......1/3/0
2190.....4........."............26........4.......1/3/0
2150.....2.....Temple.......0..........8.......1/2/0 Settler done; start Temple
2110.....2........."............3..........13.....1/3/0 Road complete; one gold added
2070.....2........."............6..........18.....1/3/0
2030.....3........."............10........0.......1/3/0
1990.....3........."............14........5.......1/3/0
1950.....3........."............18........10.....1/3/0
1910.....3........."............22........15.....1/3/0
1870.....4........."............27........0.......1/4/0
1830.....4.....Worker.......0..........4.......1/4/0 Temple done; start Worker
1790.....4........."............5..........8.......1/4/0
1765.....3.....Settler........0..........12.....1/3/0 Worker done; start Settler
1740.....3........."............4..........17.....1/3/0
1715.....4........."............9..........0.......1/4/0
1690.....4........."............14........4.......1/4/0
1665.....4........."............19........8.......1/4/0
1640.....4........."............24........12.....1/4/0
1615.....4........."............29........16.....1/4/0
1590.....3.....Next?.........0...........0......1/3/0 Settler done; Start next Queue

At this point the borders expand from the Temple

Totals...
Total Gold netted for Treasury = 20
Total Gold netted for Research = 67
Total Gold overall = 87
(Don't Forget the temple will cost 1 gold though)

Produced...
2 settlers
1 worker
Temple (allowed city to expand to size 4 w/o disorder)

Some notes...
-- I believe the years are correct from when they change to 25 year increments, but don't hold me to it.
--All these calculations assume no more tile improvements aside from the completion of the road the slaves are currently working on and no slider changes.
--WF is typical for maximizing growth. If I recall Señor Tamali's WF chart number system....
Size 2, city works WF#7 and #8 (the cow bonuses)
Size 3, city works WF#2, #7, and #8 (due to corruption issues it makes more sense to use the shielded grassland rather than the forest. The shields are the same, but growth is maximized)
Size 4, city works WF#2, #6, #7, #8 (basically what is it currently working)

... more to come...

Last edited by ruby_maser on 24-01-2003 at 21:44

	24-01-2003 22:18									#9
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Beautiful! Thank you, Señor ruby_maser!

	24-01-2003 22:32									#10
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At 1590, we probably want to build another spear and then settler, but we'll see what the nation's needs are at that time.

This plan is excellent.

--Togas

	24-01-2003 23:23									#11
	Got spare money?

Good work

	25-01-2003 01:30									#12
	Plan #2: Settler/Worker/Temple/Settler... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Year / Size / Queue / Shields / Food / Gold / Notes

2230.....4.....Settler........21........0......1/3/0
2190.....4.........".............26........4......1/3/0
2150.....2.....Worker........0..........8......1/2/0 Settler done; start Worker
2110.....2........."............3..........13.....1/3/0 Road complete; one gold added
2070.....2........."............6..........18.....1/3/0
2030.....2.....Temple.......0..........0.......1/3/0 Worker done; start Temple
1990.....2........."............3..........5.......1/3/0
1950.....2........."............6..........10.....1/3/0
1910.....2........."............9..........15.....1/3/0
1870.....3........."............13........0.......1/3/0
1830.....3........."............17........5.......1/3/0
1790.....3........."............21........10.....1/3/0
1765.....3........."............26........15.....1/3/0
1740.....4.....Settler........0..........0......1/4/0 Temple done; start Settler
1715.....4........."............5..........4.......1/4/0
1690.....4........."............10........8.......1/4/0
1665.....4........."............15........12.....1/4/0
1640.....4........."............20........16.....1/4/0
1615.....5........."............25........0.......2/6/0
1590.....3.....Next?.........0..........2.......1/5/0 Settler done; Start next Queue
..............................................5
..............................................10

Totals...
Total Gold netted for Treasury = 20 (no change)
Total Gold netted for Research = 69
Total Gold overall = 89 (if I got the corruption rates right )
(Don't Forget the temple will cost 1 gold though)

Produced...
2 settlers
1 worker (becomes available 7 turns sooner in this example)
Temple (timed for right when the city needs it at size 4)

Some notes...
--We will need a second garrison in the city while it hovers at size 5 for a turn
--Simply reverses the order of the worker and the temple. We get the worker seven turns faster, and the borders do not expand until 1515 BC.
--All these calculations assume no more tile improvements aside from the completion of the road the slaves are currently working on and no slider changes.
--WF is typical for maximizing growth. If I recall Señor Tamali's WF chart number system....
Size 2, city works WF#7 and #8 (the cow bonuses)
Size 3, city works WF#2, #7, and #8 (due to corruption issues it makes more sense to use the shielded grassland rather than the forest. The shields are the same, but growth is maximized)
Size 4, city works WF#2, #6, #7, #8 (basically what is it currently working)
Size 5, city works WF#2, #3, #6, #7, and #8 (Gold Mountain is worked for one turn at size 5 and then immediately for one turn at size 3 to re-sync the growth rate.

Last edited by ruby_maser on 25-01-2003 at 01:37

	25-01-2003 17:52									#13
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I would prefer plan #2 prior to plan #1. It just feel better to get a worker to connect Pamplona with the future settlement...

	26-01-2003 01:17									#14
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I like plan #1 better. Barcelona can be the worker factory and even Madrid is going to have another worker for us in 5-6 turns. We need Pamlona concentrating on settlers.

In fact, I'd prefer that you forgot about the worker in Pamplona and just built a settler after that temple.