25-01-2003 00:11									#31
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What I want to do:

Move Grog 6 toward the barbarian camp.
Move Slash 2 to help with city defense.
Fortify Zonk where he is (just north of Cyclone) for the moment in case barbs show up. If the settler's first three moves are 1-1-1, Zonk can pick up the settler on the settler's third move or intercept barbarians that threaten either the settler or Cyclone.

	25-01-2003 00:12									#32
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Slash: if you move Grog, it might be best for him to explore a few turns further, and from there on gently retreat towards the horse. If all terrain is visible, we don't need defenders as the barbs have no way of appearing.

DeepO

	25-01-2003 00:19									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Slash: if you move Grog, it might be best for him to explore a few turns further, and from there on gently retreat towards the horse. If all terrain is visible, we don't need defenders as the barbs have no way of appearing.

With where the other units are, having Slash head due south toward the horses looks like it will also be optimal for covering ground and preventing barbarians from showing up. (Which is good for the moment, but before long, we may start liking the idea of barbarians showing up to contribute to our treasury.)

	25-01-2003 00:28									#34
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Suggestion: move Grog in order to find the Barb camp, but do not attack it.

At Chieftan and given the terrain, there is no way (almost...) we lose any Barb battle on defense, unless a Horseman shows up. So the only risk is having Vox get the 25 gold instead of us. I doubt Vox will leave their Worker undefended (if so, it would be very nice time to decalre war upon them). But their westernmost Warrior could double back and hit the camp from the South. Only in this case should we attack the camp. With Barbs roaming around, we promote Grog and worry Vox to no end. Hopefully we can fortify our Warrior on a Mountain, so that we do not risk losing him in the Jungle to disease.


Dominae

	25-01-2003 00:29									#35
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Moves made. The camp is 6-6-6 from Lookout Ridge, or 6-6 from Grog's new location. (That's on a mountain, by the way; I'm glad this isn't Emperor level.)

	25-01-2003 00:30									#36
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Dominae, interesting idea... with only one problem: we need to have some exploration of the 'border' with Vox. If we do that, we need to move on e warrior up too.

DeepO

	25-01-2003 00:35									#37
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Screenshots and turn sent.

	25-01-2003 00:37									#38
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I'd rather get the camp cleaned out, the gold in our vaults, and Grog back on lookout duty ASAP.

	25-01-2003 00:38									#39
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Shall I go ahead and send the note to Vox that I posted earlier?

	25-01-2003 00:43									#40
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What is the Warrior closest to the Whale doing (sorry I tend to forget the names)? He's a bit far away, but he can move up for lookout duty, replacing Grog while he deals with the Barbs. Plus, we could use 2 Warriors up there anyway. If the Warrior in question is meant to come back and ensure no Barbs appear in the Hills, let me just say that the Barb bonus for Cheiftan (200%)makes it absurdly easy for any Settler escort to shrug them off.


Dominae

	25-01-2003 00:44									#41
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Shall I go ahead and send the note to Vox that I posted earlier?

Sounds good to me, although I'm pretty miffed that we're putting so much into diplomacy while they're such slouches about it. If they do not accept our offer (or worse, refuse it), what's our next move?


Dominae

	25-01-2003 00:55									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae What is the Warrior closest to the Whale doing (sorry I tend to forget the names)? He's a bit far away, but he can move up for lookout duty, replacing Grog while he deals with the Barbs. Plus, we could use 2 Warriors up there anyway. If the Warrior in question is meant to come back and ensure no Barbs appear in the Hills, let me just say that the Barb bonus for Cheiftan (200%)makes it absurdly easy for any Settler escort to shrug them off.

I assume you're referring to Slash. My concern isn't that a settler escort might lose to barbs, but rather that once Cyclone builds a worker and has it out in the field, a single warrior can't defend both the horse city and the Cyclone area. Moving Slash in gives us a guard for each city.

	25-01-2003 01:00									#43
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Message sent. I'll post a copy to the Ambassador's office thread later.

	25-01-2003 01:00									#44
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By looking at the scores, can any of you math wizards figure out how we are actually doing-how many cities etc? The gap is certainly increasing between Lego and Lux. How many cities estimated would that be (with other factors as well of course)

	25-01-2003 01:09									#45
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GoW's 'Imperial City' is currently the #1 city in the F11 screen. The jumped from 2nd place last turn, without increasing in population. My guess is that they built a city improvement, most likely a barracks.

	25-01-2003 01:11									#46
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Let's not get caught off-guard again. I suggest that we start a thread for Turn 41 immediately.

	25-01-2003 02:05									#47
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Shiber, most likely Imperial city built something cultural, meaning a temple.

Maybe one of the other teams, like lego, have built a temple too... while Vox has most likely produced a worker the turn before last.

DeepO

	25-01-2003 02:13									#48
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I thought non-cultural city improvements add to a city's score as well. It just seems more logical that they built a barracks, though if you say that building a military improvement doesn't increase your rating in the best cities screen, then I guess they must have built something else, like a temple, as you suggested.
Does anyone know exactly what affects a city's rating, and how it is calculated?

	25-01-2003 03:11									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Let's not get caught off-guard again. I suggest that we start a thread for Turn 41 immediately.

If you're volunteering, you can use Sir Ralph's template, get our gold status from the screenshot, and fill in temporary orders to be edited by the scholia heads. Otherwise, maybe I can get to it in a few hours; I'm at work right now.

	25-01-2003 03:14									#50
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Sure.

	25-01-2003 07:22									#51
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I haven't seen any new calculations, and the ranking has changed in PTW it seems. In 1.29f, it was just the amount of culture in that city that made its ranking. Now, it seems population has also become important, though not as important as culture.

Maybe other improvements, or the presence of defenders are now also part of the equation, but having a barracks in a city doesn't seem to form a glorious city, which was more or less the purpose of the F11 ranking. But yes, it's pure speculation from my side

DeepO

	25-01-2003 07:31									#52
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My suspicion is that other factors besides culture have always been involved in the F11 stats, but that culture overwhelms everything else by the time people actually start paying attention to F11 in SP. PBEM games get people thinking a lot more about those stats a lot earlier in the game because there's so little else to do.

	25-01-2003 07:38									#53
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Could be... aside from an occasional temple, all cities should be at 2 points difference culturally from each other. Other factors can now have an impact, while with 5 points difference, culture is the only thing that counts.

But still, I don't recall specific examples, but I check the F11 screen a lot in all my games, especially after the first contacts have been made. I can't think of any time when it struck me as something besides culture in 1.29f, while I've seen it a few times in PTW already.

DeepO

	25-01-2003 07:46									#54
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It's cumulative culture, not the current rate of generating culture, that plays such a dominant role. That's why capitals are so hard to knock out of the top five: they have all that early accumulated culture from their palaces. But early in the game, cumulative culture is nowhere near as high as it will be later on, so other factors are more important in comparison.

	25-01-2003 08:05									#55
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Of course, its the total, cummulative, culture in a city, as displayed in F5... which is one of the reasons why I think it used to be only culture in 1.29f: if you're doing very well, and you've got 3 cities in F11, you'll see that the moment one city has 1 culture point more then another, it will be placed highest... regardless of size, other buildings, troops, or happiness.

DeepO

	25-01-2003 15:26									#56
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So Imperial City has most likely built a temple, and it's only size 3. That's good news - it probably means that they have no luxuries around.

	25-01-2003 17:38									#57
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Shiber, I consider it good tactics from the GoW, if I was them and not too close to anyone else, I would build a temple before building a barracks. It will let them concentrate on military building for the next 3000 years, without having to fear any culture flips in conquested territory.

DeepO

	25-01-2003 18:15									#58
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Hmm... you make a good point.
We are close to Vox, and we're the only two civs on a medium-sized island. GoW, on the other hand, is not immediately threatened or pressed to go to war (judging by your combined minimap), so they can take their time and build up culture.

	25-01-2003 18:32									#59
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The beauty of it is that they only need one temple... very good investment, that one.

DeepO