22-01-2001 08:23									#1
	What custom units do you use? Tired of ads?

The design workshop is fun. What custom units do you make for yourself on a regular basis?

I make foil/destroyer probe teams, which make no logical sense at all (a ship that slips into a base and steals tech?!), but are still effective. Foils cost 40 and are easier to rush, but Destroyers can handle long-range missions easier.

I also make supply foils, and send them out to special resources in the ocean to collect. Occasionally the AI or a sealurk destroys them, but they're cheap so it's allright.


What about YOU? What do you make that the autodesigner doesn't?

	22-01-2001 09:22									#2
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Jasonian:

You can add supply foils to the predesigned units list, and the AI will actually build them (altho less often than it builds regular supply crawlers)

G.

	22-01-2001 09:31									#3
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Googlie, which file do you do that in? (Apologies for the ignorance )

Can I do it so that it only applies to a scenario?

	22-01-2001 09:33									#4
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Jasonian, just to answer the original topic

I build quite a few custom units. The two key ones I build - apart from the ones you've already mentioned are:
Supply needlejets, specifically for rushing secret projects.
Drop scouts - dirt cheap and upgradeable.

	22-01-2001 10:04									#5
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I don't use the auto-design feature at all. The one unit that I don't use alot, but really like is land transport- either on an infantry chassis or rover. They come in handy as defense units, and you can put defensive special abilities on them, while keeping their 'hidden surprises' purely offensive. This helps to keep your offensive force mobile while retaining attack initiative. A neat special to put on land transports is Drop Pods: their cargo won't be damaged, but both units end their turns after being dropped, meaning they cannot move or attack. However, combined with orbital insertion ability, this can still be a fierce combo.
[This message has been edited by Anunikoba (edited January 23, 2001).]

	22-01-2001 11:18									#6
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Mis:

It;s the alpha.txt and alphax.txt itself that needs editing

Change the alpha.txt and alphax.txt as follows:

Add this line to the #UNITS list (p12 of Alphax.txt):

Foil Supply, Foil, Supply, Scout, 10, 0, 0, IndAuto,DocFlex, - 1, 00000000000000000000000000

As well, the # units (23) needs to be changed to 24 in the text.

And to be honest, I don't really know how scemarios are affected. Formal scenarios, with their scenario files (eg battle for the Boreholes) carry with them their own alpha.txt But if you create, e.g. a PBEM game as a scenario, I don't know if your .txt version is the overriding one or not.

Interesting test will be to see if in any joint games the AI in my turn builds a foil supply and if it appears on your map on your turn (as I aid in the other post re locusts, the preassigned graphics suck)

I'll e-mail you a copy of my alpha.txt so that you can compare the changes.

G.

	22-01-2001 15:08									#7
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I added a foil supply and a foil probe team to my alphax.txt. Unfortunately, the AI doesn't seem to want to make use of these swell new units. Haven't caught sight of an AI trawler yet, but I have seen a few foil probes (Angels and Usurpers).

Hmm, maybe I should try a game with Morgan in it, as the AI actually seems to use probe teams with that faction.

	22-01-2001 15:21									#8
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I create foil probe team, rover probe team, and the foil supply. I usually rename them Sea harvesters, just to be different. Sometimes I experiment with different types of transport. Play around with different abilities and different chassies. I really love the ability to customize my units like that.

Anunikoba-I'm going to try your unit the next time I play. I must say I never really thought of putting drop pods on a land transport.

Googlie-I keep meaning to change the alpha text to include the foil supply but I just never get around to it so I end up going into the workshop to do it.

	23-01-2001 10:11									#9
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Sprayber:

The advantage of putting it into the alpha.txt is that the AI will occasionally build them too.

Blunderdog:

Did you remember to actually change the number of units from 23? If you didn't, the .exe will only read the first 23 of the (25?) that you actually have .txt lines for

	23-01-2001 01:23									#10
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Have any of you ever tried to use Gravship transports? I built one, and it regestered as having one empty slot, but I couldn't get any units to board it. Maby it has to be an air unit hmm...well just wondered if any of you had any experience with this.

------------------
"Are you good men and true?" Much Ado About Nothing, Act III, Scene III

	23-01-2001 05:31									#11
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The AI will build foil probes and supplys? That's simply awesome! I think I'll add them right away! (and maybe give the Pirates a free supply foil)

On another note, has anyone turned on the ability "Heavy Transport." I know the thing works, so why do you think Firaxis left it off? And why aren't antigrav struts allowed on jets when the manual says that they are? Why why why?!

Another unit: drop probe teams with synthmental. The synthemetal makes them "combat units", so they can drop within enemy zones of control, making them ideal for quick operations.

	23-01-2001 15:45									#12
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one of my favorites:

Mosquito: hand weapon nor armor gravship.

Pretty cheap and very useful: Very mobile, can kill formers, crawlers and even your enemies best weapon nor armor rovers, destroy terraforming enhacements, hunt native life - and can be upgraded to the really nasty things.

	24-01-2001 01:01									#13
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I also use all the above, and drop defenders as well. Sometimes I only use chopers to empty an enemy base and then drop some defending units to take it over, and save the energy of rush-building a defensive unit in it next turn.

Googlie and Misotu: I 'd expect you to share a few more original ideas that you surely have in this thread. Come on, you being such experienced players, you can afford to tell us a few of your secrets

	24-01-2001 02:21									#14
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Yup, I did. I also learned to put the new units at the END of the list, not in the middle. Doing it the wrong way gives you weird stuff like fungal towers in your headquarters.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie on 01-22-2001 12:11 PM Blunderdog: Did you remember to actually change the number of units from 23? If you didn't, the .exe will only read the first 23 of the (25?) that you actually have .txt lines for

	24-01-2001 02:49									#15
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My few custom units.

Transports, transports, transports

Not so original: Foil and Crusier transports trance armor configured for pod popping.

Drop transport Armored and tranced. Ideal for popping pods in far away areas (ie. other continents). Load up with a former and drop both then discharge your former to build an airbase. Then pop your pod hopefully yielding an AA (transports make AA finds more likely in my experience). Former completes airbase for your return trip with AA intact.

Chopper transport. Two turns outbound unload a probe team over enemy territory for an otherwise nasty surprise. Range is limitted per turn outbound at but half the normal range. If you decide to suicide your chopper then range is twice the normal range of a chopper (minus one square else you crash).

Late game Drop probe/psi armored for nasty interdiction missions with subversion ability to boot. Especially helpful to have Nueral Empath SP.

More standard units include drop colony pods.

Have even tried clean colony pods for pod booming.

Hmmm scratching my head for a few others....

Og



[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited January 23, 2001).]

	27-01-2001 20:00									#16
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I sometimes use SAM rovers. If needed they can attack air units (2/ turn, 3 if elite) but don't defend first like interceptors. When attacking ground units they don't take 50% penalty behaving like a normal rover.

I've read something about using SAM abilitie with artillery but never tried it myself.

	28-01-2001 10:41									#17
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I've been experimenting with transport needlejets and transport choppers; the needlejets are near useless, and the choppers are almost near useless. I mean, only one unit transported, and range cut in half, and load only in bases and airbases, and unload only in bases and airbases?!? Any two of the above would have been reasonable, but all four completly hamstringed the usefulness if the units!

We live in a world where airlift capability is extremely important both militarily and commercially, would the future be any different? Especially a world where 'airdrop' capability and 'orbital insertions' are de rigouer?

I've been considering altering this situation, but I don't have decent knowledge of ACs .txt file yet...any suggestions?

	28-01-2001 01:24									#18
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Airdrop forumers.....yes the ultimate in useless.


hehe kidding, there not that useless

	28-01-2001 06:13									#19
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PSI Supply - If you've got the Neural Amp, or give it Hypnotic Trance it is rather difficult to take out (say, with a NeedleJet...)

Trance Formers - Didn't come up with this one, but I use it occasionally when the midworms attack. Gotta love the name.

Clean GravShip SuperFormers - The Caddilac (sp?) of formers - work on both land & sea.

And how is a spy ship illogical? The US and probably other nations have employed them in the past.

	28-01-2001 06:22									#20
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I build police infantry quite a bit (infantry chassis with only hand weapon and non-lethal). This is good for getting rid of drone problems quickly, while keeping expenses down. The unit can later be upgraded if needed.

	30-01-2001 03:03									#21
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My custom units of choice are both ships:

A) My "Missile Submarine"
An armored up destroyer with transport equipment + Carrier deck, + Pressure Hull. A nice piece of equipment. Fill them up with at least one PB and lots of regular missiles for a punch (1 PB/3-4 C.M. works well). Send one to each faction and double-hide them in fungus outside sensor range. Consider accompanying them with a regular Submarine for further protection. Now if the enemy faction is stupid enough to go to war, you hold the fate of their most prized base/s in the missile tube of that Submarine. If the UN Charter has been repealed, feel free to fire away.


B) Repair Carrier (most cheap when running with a Fusion Reactor)

If you like Needlejet + Drop Troops tactics, invest in this. One best-armor Repair-Carrier destroyer filled to capacity with bombers/interceptors on a 2/1 basis (consider bringing a copter or two though). Accompany this flag ship with at least one AAA/SAM cruiser and 2-3 regular battleships.
Also, bring a sea colony pod and a normal transport carrying your crack drop troops.
Enter one unruly faction. Move your CVN task force to the enemy territory and park a short distance off-coast. Build a base, regardless of terrain. Now launch your Needlejet squadrons to wipe out all defenders in your target city(cities?). When you have finished with the garrison, use the sea base to drop your para-soldiers into it/them.

	30-01-2001 04:45									#22
	Put an end to popups!

All kinds of crazy supply combinations (armor, special abilities, rover chasis, copter chassis, needlejet chassis with various reactors). The reason: use them for SPs with upgrades. I.e. build a cheap version of given chassis, upgrade it to some crazy expensive version due to special abilities/armor. This way the total cost is less than building it with those special abilities and hurrying it, furthurmore, it is FAR cheaper than hurrying the SP itself. With this trick, you can 'buy' secret project minerals as cheap as 1.5 energy per mineral, which beats even the cheapest base-facility hurry cost (2 energy per mineral).

Using various (crazy) armor/special ability combinations are also good to achieve specific mineral costs to suite the production capabilities of certain cities (e.g. 50/60/70 minerals), so that you can make perfect productivity transfer from various bases to the SP builder base.

Let me also emphasise the use of infantry probe teams with best-armor as a single defender of a base (nobody else in the base). It is especially useful when you tech and SE settings allow the creation of elite probe teams from scratch (can be achieved pretty early with Miriam/Fundy). Such unit is the universal single defender: strong against traditional attack (best armor+elite morale), also strong against psi attack (elite morale) and also strongly defends against probe actions. It is usualy easier to achieve elite probes than elite combat units out-of-factory, because some techs only increase probe base morale!

	30-01-2001 04:52									#23
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Don't forget the best unit of all -- the Drop Trance heavily armored fission supply crawler. The more expensive the better. Upgrade(downgrade?) a fusion supply crawler to this and you can build most secret projects in a single turn. Same thing works with foil crawlers

Also trance scout infantry -- costs 10 and stops worms as well as anything.

Impact empath needlejets are cheap and kill off attacking native lifeforms.

Late in the game, cheap drop hovertanks are great -- drop them on a continent, then upgrade them to something impressive.

Empath rovers are good if you're hunting mind worms for profit.

Really cheap cruisers are useful for capturing sea bases after you've killed off all the defenders from the air. Cheap amphibious units, perhaps with some armor or police ability, are also useful for capturing coastal cities if you are relying on airpower to do most of the heavy work.

And of course if there are Usurpers or Caretakers in the game you want X needlejets and X choppers to wipe them out quickly.

	30-01-2001 14:39									#25
	Got spare money?

I know about that thing of upgrading crawlers to very expensive things, but doesn't have it the foul smell of cheating?
I never do it because it would give me unfair advantage against the AI.
I BUILD expensive crawlers as a movable savings bank, but I don't upgrade crawlers.


"Steelborn, Starborn"

	31-01-2001 00:04									#26
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Optimus and Mad Monk,

The utility of an air borne transport preferably a chopper transport is that it gives you the ability to move a probe team (yes only one) deep behind the lines. Whats more as Optimus described the approach to unload this sucker is use the key strokes. Whats more you never have to deal with that annoying drop restriction in the presence of air units and/or aero complexes.

Probe team used in combo with this are invaluable as the range of the probe team is greatly extended inland from where otherwise one might only be able to use foil probe teams. Imagine the surprise when you probe an inland base that has housed an arsenal of PBs or subverting that Zak base with Virtual World Sp. Fun for the whole family!

This is by no mean to be considered an efficient means of starting an invasion but is a nice 'Delta force' insertion route for single units that can make a difference (i.e. probe teams).

Og

	31-01-2001 03:41									#27
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Yup.

	31-01-2001 03:59									#28
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Ogie,

You are absolutely right about the value of such probe insertion. Just one more advantage to mention there over a drop-probe: copter/plane transported probes can move in the same turn (and without losing any energy), while dropped probes have to sit their defensless for a turn, making it very easy for the opponent to kill them (unless heavily armored).

On the other hand, I'd say it is kinda cheating, because it is quite obviously exploitation of a bug - you were not supposed to be able to unload units from flying transports...
Although this can be debated strongly, i.e. why not ? Especially from a copter, which lands at the end of the turn, meaning that it is sitting on the ground.

I would consider fair if you could only undload from copter, not from plane. But in that case it would be better if worked from both ways (moving the unit or using the right-click menu or key-combination).

Zsozso

	31-01-2001 06:11									#29
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Zso,

You are absolutely correct. The use of the air transport can be considered dubious. I think its incredibly neat tho' to have those probe teams rolling out of the choppers (kinda reminds me of Navy Seals). I also think it realstic (yeah I know one should never apply realism arguements to a Scifi TBS game) In a PBEM game one would definitely have to clear it with others.

By the by, Patent rights on onload technique are of course being made payable to ZSO incorporated. Glad to have you back.

Og
[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited January 30, 2001).]

	31-01-2001 23:58									#30
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Ah, another Heinlein fan I see. Allow me to compliment you on your fine taste in classic sci-fi authors