25-01-2003 00:38									#1
	2190BC Orders, Discussion, Results Got spare money?

Recent Madrid spearman --> Pamplona ... probably West. Depends on where GoW moves.

Pamplona warriors & TEG move to contain GoW and hinder their travel southward. (specific orders from PlagueRat?)

--Togas

	25-01-2003 01:05									#2
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Please Delay doing this next turn, until we have decided on what will be built in Madrid. I'm writing up my post for the worker-Granary Option (which looks to be the best, IMHO).

Eta Tamali

	25-01-2003 01:12									#3
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Please Delay doing this next turn, until we have decided on what will be built in Madrid.

Delay doing what? The spearman is a part of the REX plans for Cow Valley, and he's not going to be delayed as Pamplona will need a sturdy defender once those settlers leave in 2 turns.

--Togas

	25-01-2003 01:50									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

THe reason that I'm asking for the delay is so that the Govenor of Madrid can look at my Worker-Granary Plan. We should have 5 shields accumulated for the current build (Temple=placeholder). IF you play the turn, then we CAN NOT change to the worker.

As for the spearman, he was built last turn, and should be already on his way to Pamplona.

Eta Tamli

	25-01-2003 01:53									#5
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Madrid expedition : east

	25-01-2003 02:24									#6
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Madrid should be placed on temple (placeholder)

The WF should remain the same (cows and game)

	25-01-2003 03:02									#7
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Arnelos,

E_T is saying that if we're going to switch to a worker to impliment his plan, we have to make the switch THIS TURN, otherwise we'll waste a few sheilds and time if we make the switch next turn.

So, what will it be? Worker + Granery or Temple?

--Togas

	25-01-2003 03:08									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Arnelos, E_T is saying that if we're going to switch to a worker to impliment his plan, we have to make the switch THIS TURN, otherwise we'll waste a few sheilds and time if we make the switch next turn. So, what will it be? Worker + Granery or Temple? --Togas

FYI: We make 5 shields a turn and it takes 10 shields to build a worker. Since we don't waste any shields switching production like in Civ2, there's nothing to lose by setting ANYTHING as a placeholder for 1 turn.

By the NEXT turn, however, we need to have our act together.

But that gives us a few days to sort this out.

	25-01-2003 03:14									#9
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Please Forward the save to me, when you get it.

E_T

	25-01-2003 03:19									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos FYI: We make 5 shields a turn and it takes 10 shields to build a worker. Since we don't waste any shields switching production like in Civ2, there's nothing to lose by setting ANYTHING as a placeholder for 1 turn. By the NEXT turn, however, we need to have our act together. But that gives us a few days to sort this out.

Last turn , we started building the Temple as a place holder. This turn we will have 5 shields invested in that. IF we end the turn without changing to the Worker, then we will lose 5 shields and 1 turn of this. I've posted a chart in the Madrid Thread and I'll be sending it to Arnelos in just a moment.

As we are examining several options, that will get the REX going faster & without loosing time to do it in, we need to examine this and not rush to send off the save.

We have a few hours, IMHO

E_T

	25-01-2003 03:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Please Forward the save to me, when you get it. E_T

And to me too, please.

	25-01-2003 05:25									#12
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Last turn , we started building the Temple as a place holder. This turn we will have 5 shields invested in that. IF we end the turn without changing to the Worker, then we will lose 5 shields and 1 turn of this. I've posted a chart in the Madrid Thread and I'll be sending it to Arnelos in just a moment. As we are examining several options, that will get the REX going faster & without loosing time to do it in, we need to examine this and not rush to send off the save. We have a few hours, IMHO E_T

huh?

I thought we're currently working on the turn where the spear will be complete

	25-01-2003 07:09									#13
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After an exhausting and lengthy discussion on our channel between Arnelos, E_T, and myself, we have decided to go with Plan B for Madrid. The temple will remain in the queue.

--Togas

	25-01-2003 09:25									#14
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Togas,

I had another idea that E_T and I have been discussing...

You will note that the queue for the Temple plan is:

Temple-Worker-Spearman-Spearman-Settler-Spearman-Settler

What if we swapped those first two spearmen (worth 40 shields) for a barracks (also worth 40 shields)?

The the queue would go:

Temple-Worker-Barracks-Settler-Spearman-Settler

Now this means having 2 less units running around, but it also means we get that barracks sooner, so we build it DURING this queue rather than right after it's over. Could be problematic for covering all of our new cities AND going off to fight barbarian huts, though... so it's up to you which you want.

	25-01-2003 12:28									#15
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No need to decide that now. Is an option to consider later.

	25-01-2003 13:11									#16
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Results for this turn

Kept TEG where they were as GoW moves into our "trap" ... Pamplona division moves north to help corral them. ND scout was sitting on a hilltop SE of Pamplona after a short trip through our plains.

Magyars find Barbarians sitting in their village on a hill. Doesn't seem like they ever went anywhere.

GoW conscript is now between Madrid and Pamplona, right next to our spear division, spying on both cities.

Pamplona makes settler next turn.

Barcelona production changed back to fish. Warrior next turn.

Madrid kept on temple.

GoW now has Iron Working. We need to find out how they got it.

Enjoy your images

--Togas

	25-01-2003 13:50									#17
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Please note...

GoW couldn't yet see Madrid... and since our spearman moved SE (thank you!), they will be unable to see Madrid unless they enter our territory - violating even the Civ3 game-terms treaty restrictions.

If they do that, we post a screenshot of their pathetic conscript invading our territory to the public forums

	25-01-2003 17:30									#18
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A very good plan Arnelos! Let us all stand united if the GoW messes up...

BTW: What do we need that temple for, just now? Madrid could produce a settler or a worker? That would make more sense. Hmm, guess its just a placeholder before a final decision is made.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 25-01-2003 at 17:37

	25-01-2003 21:37									#19
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Lego has again increased the number of basic points per turn : 5th city or cultural borders ?

	26-01-2003 01:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat BTW: What do we need that temple for, just now? Madrid could produce a settler or a worker? That would make more sense. Hmm, guess its just a placeholder before a final decision is made.

You can go read the reasons for the temple in the extensive analysis thread, but we debated it further by chat last night and agree that Temple is the best option.

The reason is somewhat deceptive...

Culture has nothing to do with it, that's just gravy (not even part of the analysis). The issue is that at Regent level, our city goes into unrest at Pop 4 unless we have 2 military units and then goes into unrest at Pop 5 even if we DO have 2 military units.

Now, it's more efficient to be completing your settlers at Pop 5 than Pop 3, because at Pop 5, your population drops to 3, whereas at Pop 3 your population drops to 1. The reason it's so much better is that it takes a LOT less time to pump out both a spearman and a settler while you're growing from Pop 3 up to Pop 5 than it does if you're growing between Pop 1 and Pop 3 (or even Pop 2 and Pop 4).

So what the temple does for us, in effect, is boost our production

It ALSO boosts our trade, since being at pops 3-5 means we're making more trade a turn over the course of the next 20-30 turns than we would at Pop 1-4.

More production, more money, faster growth.

The other problem is that to build a worker immediately while we're at Pop 2 would reduce our population to 1, minimizing our production, trade, and growth until we can regro to at least 3 or 4. It's more efficent to build the temple while we're waiting for the city to grow to pop 3 and 4 ANYWAYS, THEN build the worker (which reduces pop by 1). Then we let the pop grow to 5 while we're building either 2 spearmen or a barracks (same price) and start pumping out settlers when we reach Pop 5.

I hope that explains it

	28-01-2003 04:58									#21
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Wow, that does explain things. A cunning plan indeed.