26-01-2003 13:22									#1
	Creationism reels back once again, or new four-winged dinosaur fossil found Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I am surprised that nobody has posted a thread on this. From a National Geographic article:

quote: Paleontologists in China have discovered the fossil remains of a four-winged dinosaur with fully developed, modern feathers on both the forelimbs and hind limbs.

quote: Xu Xing, a paleontologist at the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology in Beijing, China, and colleagues suggest in the January 23 issue of the journal Nature that the species is an early ancestor of birds that probably used its feathered limbs, along with a long, feather-fringed tail, to glide from tree to tree.

I wonder if this is a transitional form.

	26-01-2003 13:26									#2
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I was reading about this in a magazine.

I think this is the same story. Is this the story that says dinasaurs evolved into birds?

If not, then I'm talking about a different story.

The problem is China has a fake fossil business. And many U.S. Paleantologists are skeptical.

Actually some creationists are trying to use this news to show how evolution is wrong. But that is a really silly argument.

	26-01-2003 13:28									#3
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I'd have to see that article. I may be talking about a different article I read.

	26-01-2003 14:35									#4
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Oh yeah, i saw this on the news the other day, i don't think they believe this is a transitional form, because, IIRC, the mechanics with 4 wings is very different from our 2-winged present day birds.

	26-01-2003 14:55									#5
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quote: feathered wings, which researchers believe the dinosaur used to glide from tree to tree, much like flying squirrels do today

Dinosaurs evolved into squirrels.

	26-01-2003 16:15									#6
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bah!

China are just a bunch of good for nothing infidels. What would you expect from them.

	26-01-2003 16:18									#7
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Very mature attitude their, azazel?
What a freaky åss looking dinosaur/bird!

	26-01-2003 16:42									#8
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It's a perculiar looking bugger, but who is to say that it didn't lose the rear wings if they were redundant, I mean, it is a lot of resources to expend on something that isn't strictly necessary, which may prove to be a decisive in a time of scarcity.

	26-01-2003 16:42									#9
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that's me.

	26-01-2003 16:43									#10
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dissident,

There's an article published in the January 23 issue of Nature, so it gives the discovery more creditability.


Lemmy,

Still a transitional form - between dinosaurs and birds.


Azazel,

Yeah well, our words are backed by nuclear weapons. So there.

	26-01-2003 17:28									#11
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Doubt it is a transitional form, more likely to be a "dead-end". Archaeoptryx looks more like a transitional form tbh.

	26-01-2003 17:40									#12
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lightblue:. Archeopterix was already a full fledged bird, mostly. It had teeth and claws, but it could independently fly, and had plumage.

This finding is doubtful. 4 wings?

	26-01-2003 18:01									#13
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Yeah it is probably fairly late in the transition, but I wouldn't be surprised if some the smaller raptors had feather-like (which are just a specialised form of scales really) scales as well.

	26-01-2003 18:31									#14
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I've actually read the aritcle.

"Four winged" MY ASS. what a ****ing stupid description. I was actually led to believe that this thing had 4 wings, like the mutant drozofelia that we all learned to love.

now I am rather certain. It is the missing link.

	26-01-2003 18:34									#15
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(I would like to point out that the pic shows the hind legs having long feathers, this hardly constitutes wings. The picture is freaky though)

	26-01-2003 19:15									#16
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God could appear on national TV and say that evolution is right and those bible thumpers would still not believe it.

	26-01-2003 22:11									#17
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quote: Dinosaurs evolved into squirrels.

	27-01-2003 09:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel "Four winged" MY ASS. what a ****ing stupid description. I was actually led to believe that this thing had 4 wings, like the mutant drozofelia that we all learned to love.

"Feathered limbs" is more precise, but a wing is just a limb with feathers, no?

	27-01-2003 09:27									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko

>> Boshko

you have a thing for squirrels, dont you.

	27-01-2003 09:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sava God could appear on national TV and say that evolution is right and those bible thumpers would still not believe it.

	27-01-2003 09:33									#21
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I once saw an ugly dinosaur
His wings counted four
His descendants became birds
He is studied by nerds
But dont say hes ugly anymore

	27-01-2003 09:38									#22
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I think that I will withhold opinion on this finding for the time being, I strongly suspect that it may be another "piltdown man", or at least an archaeopteryx (that is, something alleged to be a transitional form but upon closer examination it appears not to be).

Last edited by monkspider on 27-01-2003 at 10:11

	27-01-2003 10:09									#23
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quote: you have a thing for squirrels, dont you.

Why would you think that?

	27-01-2003 10:18									#24
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Acutally I wanted to start a thread on this myself. I just dont believe that a dinosaur could have 4 wings or let alone any animal. I just cant believe this.

	27-01-2003 10:20									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Acutally I wanted to start a thread on this myself. I just dont believe that a dinosaur could have 4 wings or let alone any animal. I just cant believe this.

So if the discovery is verified by other scientists and it becomes fact, will this force you to accept evolution as reality, or will it make you go fundie nutball and start accusing scientists of conspiracies?

	27-01-2003 10:24									#26
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A bizarre new fossil found in China? Fake!

	27-01-2003 10:27									#27
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I am just saying that it hard to believe. All I have seen is the report on the news about this new dinosaur. I just cant see how animal could get 4 wings. How do they walk or do they even walk? Things like that. If I told you there were 4 winged dinosaur that lived millions of years ago and you did not know of this fossil would you believe it?

	27-01-2003 10:27									#28
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I am only going to accept it when I see hard proof that it is not a fake.

	27-01-2003 10:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I am just saying that it hard to believe. All I have seen is the report on the news about this new dinosaur. I just cant see how animal could get 4 wings. How do they walk or do they even walk? Things like that. If I told you there were 4 winged dinosaur that lived millions of years ago and you did not know of this fossil would you believe it?

If you didn't know dinosaurs had existed, and I told you that giant lizards stomped around the earth 60 million years ago, I don't know if you'd believe me without some sort of evidence.

I don't see this as any different. Why is it so difficult to believe?

	27-01-2003 10:33									#30
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Because it seems impossible for something to have 4 wings and no legs. Maybe I am wrong, I just heard this thing on the news. Besides you sould not take everything you hear on the news at face value.