26-01-2003 21:18									#1
	General Negotiations with Greater Finland Increase Your PM Length

The foreign ministry of Suomi has decided to initiate the long awaited general negotiations with Greater Finland as agreed in the Tornio Peace Treaty after the War of 14 Days between Suomi and Greater Finland. The goal is to finally settle the issue about the new permanent border and to agree about the final NAP agreement. Also needed to be debated is the proposal of a trade embargo against the CFC region, unless other trade matters are more urgent.

Our initial proposal is that the provinces of Savo and Kainuu should be autonomous with a local government, plus that the following municipalities would be included on the Suomi side of the new border.

Rymättylä
Velkua
Kustavi
Taivassalo
Jomala
Lumparland
Lemland
Mariehamn
Sottunga
Kökar

Also the following islands are requested.

Utö
Österskär
Nötö
Björkö
Berghamn

	26-01-2003 21:27									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

First of all, the province of Salo can not be granted autonomious government. Salo has significant military importance to Greater Finland (I won't get into details here, they are classified) and we are not prepared to relocate from it anytime soon. An autonomious government would mean disarming, of course?

Kainuu can be established partially autonomous, but the GF central government must have enough say in matters. Our parliament should have a right to veto any decision made by the local government, and the legislatory system should be under our jurisdiction.

Utö and Österskär are unacceptable demands, unless Suomi withdraws it's claims from Marienhamn, Velkua and Sottunga. Both of those islands are necessary for trade operations and other surveillance duties.

Last edited by Kassiopeia on 26-01-2003 at 21:33

	26-01-2003 21:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

An autonomous government would indeed mean disarming, but Suomi wants to take action as there's a very mixed population in the region and we fear that your army might be more interested in its own military installations, rather than the native local population. As for Kainuu, I insist that the local government should be on a fifty fifty basis and no real manipulation vy outsiders, unless Greater Finland plans to have a puppet regime in Kainuu.

As for the islands, we are ready to drop any such claims, if we get a better position regarding the negotiations about the new border in Mänttä. As we know, Mänttä is one of the largest border towns and indeed, it would be rather bad if it becomes a new Berlin with an iron curtain.

	26-01-2003 21:42									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hmm... Salo's native population would have no fear under our control. I suppose we could allow an autonomous government be placed, but Suomi must pay us the costs of relocating our installations.

Kainuu would have an autonomous regime, it just would be working under our control... I guess you could call that a puppet regime

What comes to Mänttä, there's no contest. You get it. We don't want it. Take it. We have no use for it. Mänttä sucks.

	26-01-2003 22:06									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

We should pay the costs? That sounds almost outrageous. In that case we abstain from any such negotiations. However I point out that the population of Salo is anyway so poorly educated that we would need to build a new university, which means, Greater Finland would push it's problems on our shoulders, so in exchange we would demand you to pay the expenses for improved education.

As for Kainuu, you would simply improve your reputation by simply creating a vision that Kainuu is controlled by a fully independent local government. Meh, we rather abstain from the whole claim then.

If we get to agree about Mänttä, it would mean that the border should be moved by 22 km, but we are not sure what your interest is in municipalities such as Orivesi, Vilppula and Juupajoki. Should they be moved too or can we get a consensus about them?

	26-01-2003 22:09									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hmm... Vilppula sucks, you can have it. I'll keep Orivesi and Juupajoki. The borderline will become a bit squirmy but maybe that'll improve our relations.

Maybe we should go to the UN about Salo... I'm not willing to spend extra costs on relocating military installations built for self defence from my own soil.

What comes to Kainuu, we'll install, erm, I mean, allow them to form a government of their choice and limitedly control it for a period of time, and then re-evaluate the need for an autonomous government.

	26-01-2003 22:13									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I assume the issues about Salo and Kainuu are settled then, but do remember we need to agree about the border for the regions in west. I propose we get back the areas we lost to you in the war (mainly in Pirkanmaa) and you could maybe have something else in exchange. But mainly it's because of the fact that 80% of the population has been Suomi citizens.

	26-01-2003 22:24									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, controlling the area with such a large Suomian population would be rather difficult, in any case. However, any other area you could offer us would have even a larger percentage of former Suomi citizens, correct?

	26-01-2003 22:33									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yes, but do remember that the pesky region of Turunmaa with all those freaks from Turku has during the past 300 years been a part of Greater Finland, so I would assume that you're interested in it.

	26-01-2003 22:38									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Turku? Who wants Turku? Ok, we'll take it, and we'll give you most of the areas you lost in the war. That solves our regional disputes then, I assume? You have anything else to negotiate or are there still regions we need to share?

	26-01-2003 22:41									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, the lakes are a problem as the fishing industry is concerned about the sharing of lakes, so could we settle that dispute somehow? Please come forward with a list of border lakes you want to keep.

	26-01-2003 22:46									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Our fishing industry isn't that big, we only have fourteen year olds selling lemonade at sidewalks you see, so you can have all border lakes, if we can intake water freely from them, of course. Our area would begin a few dozens of meters off our shoreline.

	26-01-2003 23:38									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You could've chatted about this on IRC (where you both were few minutes ago),
and posted the results in a synapsis, in ONE post, in the news-thread (or the map one)

	27-01-2003 00:26									#14
	Got spare money?

Tuome,

back off.

	27-01-2003 00:28									#15
	Tired of ads?

But that wouldn't help Kass make Emperor before TKG

However, does Kass want to help his postcount even more, and post the result in the news thread, because I can't be bothered to read all this

	27-01-2003 00:29									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Back to the topic...

I agree about the lakes and I accept that you pump water from them, but no pollution of the lakes will be tolerated on either side of the border. Do you accept this?

	27-01-2003 00:30									#17
	Support Apolyton

Drogue,

who said you have to read all messages in this thread? No one. So just skip it then.

	01-02-2003 15:02									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Of course, no pollution. I'm after all one of the most environment-friendly countries in the region...

Drogue: Yes, I'll get you a brief summary in the news thread.

Tuome: Not contributing to this thread but still posting in it is spam...

	01-02-2003 16:00									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As for the border crossings, do you accept that we have as many as before or should we open a new one near Ottokinkaupunki?

	01-02-2003 16:17									#20
	Suffering from ads?

Nah, the current number of crossings will do.

Ottok!

	01-02-2003 16:39									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yes, we named the city in order honour him. We even reserved him a mausoleum there so that we get one more tourist attraction when he dies.

ottok

	01-02-2003 16:46									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Maybe we do need an extra crossing there, such a tourist attraction would mean HEAPS of increased traffic.

ottok

	01-02-2003 19:20									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, hasn't Greater Finland yet announced an official day for worship of ottok?

ottok

	01-02-2003 20:53									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

The first of February, the Day of the Return of ottok.