27-01-2003 00:24									#1
	Moo3 System Requirements Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't know if this is news or not:

Windows®: 95/98/ME/XP, 300 MHz Pentium II or better, 128 MB RAM, 8X or faster CD-ROM, 400 MB Hard Drive Space, Direct X 8.0 Compatible Video Card (must be able to display 800x600x16bit), DirectX 8.0 Compatible Sound Card, 8 Player Network Play via TCP/IP (LAN or Internet).

* * *

You don't need a cutting edge machine - which is a GOOD thing.

	27-01-2003 00:36									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I agree its a good thing, but I also believe it should aim for effects that can be produced on a machine that was the norm 2 years ago. Imho that would be a P450 rather than a P300. But as long as it is an excellent game functional graphics will be forgiven by anyone not put off by reviews that might mark them down if its too unimpressive.

	27-01-2003 01:32									#3
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quote: I don't know if this is news or not:

Not really:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...139#post1661139

And i agree that higher requirements where certainly possible.
The current requirements can be found on games which were released 4 years ago

	27-01-2003 02:12									#4
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Do you know SimCity 4's requirements, or Civilization III's? SimCity was released 2 weeks ago, Civ III a year ago.

	27-01-2003 04:16									#5
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quote: Do you know SimCity 4's requirements, or Civilization III's? SimCity was released 2 weeks ago, Civ III a year ago.

Not precisely, but they are probably higher then this, why do you ask?

	27-01-2003 04:18									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As I recall it, Simcity 4's are around the 600MHz mark, but I can't really be bothered to check right now.

Asmodean

	27-01-2003 04:21									#7
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Jonah, i thought you had simcity4!

	27-01-2003 04:28									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It was rhetorical, Mark, to make a point. The answer is 500mhz.

	27-01-2003 04:38									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And what was the point you are making?

	27-01-2003 06:46									#10
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My point is that low system requirements is NOT a sign of long development. It's a sign of intelligent programming - and financial understanding.

Not everyone has a Falcon Northwest computer, or an Area 51 from Alienware. The Sims, Rollercoaster Tycoon 2, Civ III, and the like... they're popular as well as clever.

	27-01-2003 12:51									#11
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I think you misunderstood me then, i wasn't implying a long development, even though it did took long, but that wasn't my point. My point was, if there even was one, is that they may have limited the game by keeping such low requirements.
And you can't compare a game with a 300Mhz min req with a game with 500Mhz min req, the difference is too big imo.

Last edited by Lemmy on 27-01-2003 at 13:01

	27-01-2003 15:13									#12
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According to some Beta Testers, the programm is _VERY_ slow if you only have the minimum requirments, especially the end of turn waiting on the larger galaxies. So the minimum to run the game is one thing, but I'd like to know the minimum to enjoy running the game. I used to play Civ3 on a P133, and that was a trying experience. On an Athlon2000+ its a different game. I can use the larger maps, and play industrial wars without going mad. I assume this will also be the case with MoO3. Playing on the minimum computer will be a less enjoyable experience. But I'd by a new one, just for this game.

-Jam

	27-01-2003 16:17									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

Thats true. The minimum specs aren't really the important ones. What you need to know is the spec to run the game as it is meant to be enjoyed (full graphics, minimal pausing e.t.c) You don't usually get a good feel for those on the outside of the box. Some companies do the recommended hardware properly, others keep them down to make the game more accessable even if they know you'll have to turn off half the effects to get it to run at a decent pace.

	27-01-2003 17:02									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold What you need to know is the spec to run the game as it is meant to be enjoyed (full graphics, minimal pausing e.t.c) ...decent pace.

Exactly what I was trying to say, but more concise.

-Jam

	27-01-2003 17:59									#15
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Aren't the turns simultaneous in Moo3? That should all but eliminate the delay between turns, as the AIs can do their calculations in the background when the player moves. Of course that only works if they don't cheat like in M:TW...

	27-01-2003 18:08									#16
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I believe it will be like the Total War series, with the "Zug Phase" after you press end turn and you have to wait a moment...

(I don't know what it's called properly in English)

-Jam

	27-01-2003 20:24									#17
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Theres bound to be processing after you hit the end turn button even if the races have already formulated what they intend to do during your turn. Fleets actually moving, battles taking place, what you know about what they know being calculated etc. It would be a little silly if you could curtail their planning time by being fast on the end turn button too

	27-01-2003 20:26									#18
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quote: Aren't the turns simultaneous in Moo3? That should all but eliminate the delay between turns, as the AIs can do their calculations in the background when the player moves. Of course that only works if they don't cheat like in M:TW...

I don't know about moo3, but GalCiv is supposed to use multi threading during the players turn to calculate all the computer's moves. Which definetly sounds good to me, though I wonder if that means that the computer will be signficantly smarter for us micromanagemers than for everyone else. . .

And I don't think the AI in MTW cheats. While I noticed it seeming to take advantage of coming after me in the turn order in Shogun, I haven't noticed it doing it in MTW. I think that sometimes it just moves its units where you happening to be invading. Because I've watched it move its defensive armies out right during my invasions, as well as invading places I'd just backed up.

	27-01-2003 20:37									#19
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Thats true. If I messed up bigtime in MTW I occasionally rolled back a turn. The AI would normally repeat the same actions (some randomness involved in decisionmaking) even if I moved to rectify the mistakes I had made.

	27-01-2003 20:54									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

IIRC a CA guy even admitted that the AI is aware of the human action, in order to balance the fact that a human can decide to cancel an attack when he notices overwhelming odds, but the AI can't. So it has to know what to expect in a battle.

Regarding Moo3, I think it would be ideal if the AI behaved just like an opponent in multiplayer. It could take a certain amount of time per turn. If you are faster, you wait, if they are faster, they wait. And why make a big deal about it and call it "multi-threading"? Every freeware chess AI works that way.

	27-01-2003 23:38									#21
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quote: IIRC a CA guy even admitted that the AI is aware of the human action, in order to balance the fact that a human can decide to cancel an attack when he notices overwhelming odds, but the AI can't. So it has to know what to expect in a battle.

Um. Yes it can. ?? The AI will often cancel an attack if it doesn't like the odds. I've even see it run away DURING a battle before any fighting takes place.

And yes, the computer is aware of human actions, but I don't think it really gives them much weight in its actions.

quote: Regarding Moo3, I think it would be ideal if the AI behaved just like an opponent in multiplayer. It could take a certain amount of time per turn. If you are faster, you wait, if they are faster, they wait. And why make a big deal about it and call it "multi-threading"? Every freeware chess AI works that way.

Most turn based games (to my knowledge) simply wait while the human is playing. And then do all ai calculationgs when you hit the turn button. MTW, Civ. . .