07-02-2001 20:12									#1
	(Un)Successful Probe Actions Increase Your PM Length

It's late game for my PKs and I'm trying to avert all-out wars with the sizeable factions of Morgan and Dee. I've also got the best probe teams on Planet, which I've been using to pit Morgan and Dee against each other to keep them off balance. So far so good.
But the outcome of a particular probe action has me stumped. An elite destroyer team successfully sabotages Sea Colony Pod production at a Gaian sea base and is returned to base after the "Mission Accomplished" prompt. Dee immediately contacts me and declares vendetta.
Maybe I'm missing something in the Datalinks, or it's a bug, but doesn't "Mission Accomplished" mean that the team completed its goal and escaped undetected? How did Dee discover my action?
I'm playing the original, unpatched SMAC at the Thinker level.

	07-02-2001 20:43									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This has happened to me before. I think that when it says Mission Accomplished it means that your goal was achieved. Getting away undetected is another thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong. It is possible.

	08-02-2001 10:05									#3
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Depends on what was the mission, ie. did it include 'framing other faction' ? If yes, then it is a bug. But if you do not frame another faction for your action, then accomplished simply means, you got what you went for and returned safely - but you still could be detected - and usually are!

	08-02-2001 00:48									#4
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zso, correct me if I 'm wrong, I remeber seeing separate messages for the same probe action: I saw "mision accomlished", pressed ok, and then get a "probe team compromised" message. I got the tech I probed for, but lost the unit.

	08-02-2001 01:58									#5
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Myronides

In a straight probe action there are 3 possible outcomes

1. Total success-- probe performs action and lives-- returned to nearest base with a morale upgrade

2. Partial success-- probe performs action but dies in the effort ("probe team comprimised")

3. Total failure -- probe dies with no effect

what zso seems to be saying is that even in a total success situation, you are detected and an AI may declare war. Being "detected" is pretty much irrelevant unless performing probes on friendly factions.

Generally I do not use the frame other factions option much (SP games) but think that it is something I could use more. Usually the primary goal is to steal a tech or whatever but I can envision situations where the main goal is to get them mad at each other.

	08-02-2001 01:59									#6
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There is success and losing the unit, there is success, keeping the unit and being discovered, and I assume there is success keeping the unit and not being discovered.

I have seen no difference in the last two as any time I have succeeded in my mission, kept my unit and been probing someone I wasn't at war with I got caught.

	08-02-2001 02:17									#7
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My guess as to what is going on here is that even though probe teams are unflagged you (the human) are always going to have a pretty good idea whose team it is. If someone (AI) probes a tech from you you can get annoyed, but legally, you can't do anything because legally, probe teams don't exist. Like CIA assassination attempts and whatnot. BUT- obviously, when Miriam grabs your Air Power (and disseminates it to the likes of the Colonel) you're going to be furious, and would probably want to crush her before ninety needlejets fly up to your crawlers, formers, and your sexy and lightly defended interior bases. So, you take the reputation hit and break your treaty with her. But you can't defend this action before the Planet court (so to speak) because LEGALLY, her team was never there jimmying the locks on your datalinks. Declare war, you look like the schmuck in the eyes of the other world leaders, but, on the other hand, Miriam must pay.
And the same goes for the AIs. They know who did it even if there's no legal way to prove it. And they take action.
Thoughts?

	08-02-2001 02:21									#8
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No, I didn't attempt to frame another faction (the entire planet except for me is already pounding on Morgan).
I think my confusion arises from the two prompts that follow a successful action. I thought these were describing two separate events (the completed action and the escape). But both prompts are related to the action, not the escape. I see.
Let me just add that I'm disappointed by Vel's decision to forgo a Black Ops section. For my money, probe teams are the most important military unit in the game. In my current game, I stealthily goaded four factions into attacking Morgan, then sent my own teams to drain his energy reserves and sabotage PB production. What's more fun that that (except maybe retroviral attacks during sun spots)?
Thanks, folks, for the help.

	08-02-2001 20:07									#9
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Thanks Jahelka, cbn and everybody. This thread straitend some things I used to confuse about probe team actions.

	08-02-2001 20:25									#10
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cbn's summary is correct, those are the 3 possible outcomes. Let me just add to it one clarification: the faction probed always gets notified except for infiltration. I.e. even though probes are 'unflagged', when a probe steals a tech from you, then you get a message popup like: "Miriam has downloaded your files on ...". So even in total sucessful outcome (#1 on cbn's list), the faction who suffered the action will know about it. Then he/she may decide to declare vendetta or cancel a pact, but sometimes just gives you a warning not to do that again.

The point of the framing is exactly, that in such case, the message what the faction gets about your action will contain the wrong name (not yours but whoever you framed for the action).

In case of outcome 2 or 3 (when your team gets eliminated), if you tried to frame someone, then both factions (attacked and framed) will get notified of your attempt, i.e. they can both get mad and declare vendetta against you.