27-01-2003 05:45									#1
	Lux as Civ X Get a bigger avatar today!

Now that we know for certain that Lux is the mysterious Civ X, we need to stategerize what to do about them.

Who is the envoy to lux. dominae?

They refused to trade their minimaps before, is this perhaps because they knew we were in the region and wanted to remain hidden?

do we communicate with them soon, or do we not reveal that we know who they are? Hopefully Vox won't realize their mistake, and we can communicate with Lux without interference from Vox.

Personally, I think its imperative that we contact Lux ASAP, so that we can figure out more precisely what is going on, as Vox are liars.

We also need to find out if they are across a one tile sea from Vox or connected by land bridge. IMHO, that is the most important question, as if they are connected by land, then we could partition Vox. If not, then either the two front war waits til mapmaking or we go it alone. Also, if there is no bridge, then we are safe from the two ganging up on us for quite some time.

	27-01-2003 05:59									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

One moment on the contact thing... it could be a slip of the tongue of Jon Miller... we can contact them as 'we have very strong suspicions you are Civ X', not as 'we know you are Civ X'.

But, before we have any kind of 3-partner deal, we need to find out a few things from Lux.
- what is their situation, what is this talk about a Eastern-blockade.
- What is their strength, are they even worthy to trade with (Vox is not, but they are forced upon us)
- How do they see Vox?
- What are their intentions with us? what can they offer us? what do they want from us?

and so on...

BTW, once we contacted Lux, I propose we contact at least RPG too, and try to negotiate with the other side as well. If they are opposing Lux and Vox, I want to be part of that pact, not against them. RPG has probably started on a river with cows, lego has been doing well, I don not want to get into a situation where we are the ones fighting off 3 teams, while 2 other 'partners' are fiddling with their thumbs.

DeepO

	27-01-2003 06:33									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Looking at the minimaps, and from Jm's message, lux might have contact with as many as 3 other civs-RP, ND, GoW.

Apparently they also have Writing and other unknown techs.

	27-01-2003 09:48									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Could I hear the evidence (other than the pacthwork minimap) that LI is indeed 'civ X'? Are we even allowed to deal with LI until we've actually met them in-game? I'm as curious as anyone, but let's make sure we're working with facts and not suppositions. If civ X is not LI, we might reveal things we would otherwise not want to reveal.


Dominae

	27-01-2003 09:50									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Could I hear the evidence (other than the pacthwork minimap) that LI is indeed 'civ X'? Are we even allowed to deal with LI until we've actually met them in-game? I'm as curious as anyone, but let's make sure we're working with facts and not suppositions. If civ X is not LI, we might reveal things we would otherwise not want to reveal. Dominae

Mr. Miller of Vox said as much in a recent exchange, after Nathan brought up the hypothesis, its in the communications thread.

	27-01-2003 09:56									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks, I've got it now. Although there is the slim chance that Jon Miller is lying, I now see no harm in contacting Lux.

Thoughts on what precisely I should say? I'm thinking the most important thing is to get information from them: whether our landmasses are connected, what kind of trading is going on, how they feel towards Vox. Once they know we know, I believe they'll be more willing to talk.

I'm going to bed now, but I should be able to get a message out tomorrow afternoon sometime.


Dominae

	27-01-2003 09:59									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Thanks, I've got it now. Although there is the slim chance that Jon Miller is lying, I now see no harm in contacting Lux. Thoughts on what precisely I should say? I'm going to bed now, but I should be able to get a message out tomorrow afternoon sometime. Dominae

Perhaps we should hold off for a few days. I'm not sure if Lux knows we are Civ X to them, so it might not be wise to reveal that at this point. Hopefully Vox has not been stupid and has not revealed that to them, as they did not reveal until now Lux. Hopefully someone can ask in a chat tomorrow if lux knows who we are.

After nathans chat with Vox, I think we need to clarify our positions regarding Vox and Lux. I think I was a bit too hasty with this thread.

	27-01-2003 10:04									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

There are two situations:

1. Lux is not part of the big trade consortium. In this case Vox would probably have kept our identity secret from them. But then why reveal Lux's identity to us?

2. Lux is part of the big trade consortium (this is far more plausible). If this is true, I'm sure most civs know who and where we are by now. News travels fast when 4 civs are talking, and things are tougher to keep secret.

In both cases contacting Lux provides us with much-needed information.


Dominae

	27-01-2003 10:10									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dominae There are two situations: 1. Lux is not part of the big trade consortium. In this case Vox would probably have kept our identity secret from them. But then why reveal Lux's identity to us?

Vox only revealed it because Nathan point blank asked about it, and probably due to Jm's new position, he probably revealed more than he should have had he been working with us for a while. Lux wouldnt trade maps with us before, perhaps they still havent with others. they have contact with at least 3 civs, they probably have enough to deal with.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae 2. Lux is part of the big trade consortium (this is far more plausible). If this is true, I'm sure most civs know who and where we are by now. News travels fast when 4 civs are talking, and things are tougher to keep secret. In both cases contacting Lux provides us with much-needed information.

If Vox has revealed us, then yes, everyone would know. If so, I imagine that they will target us first. If not, they might focus on someone else first.

I think we need more information from vox.

	27-01-2003 10:24									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Looking at the minimaps, and from Jm's message, lux might have contact with as many as 3 other civs-RP, ND, GoW.

From the chat with Jon, this appears to be the case. They also seem to be at least even in tech, and likely just a little ahead. (Jon's impression seems to be that it's more than just a little, but if they don't have either Writing or Mysticism yet, the lead probably isn't all that big.)

	27-01-2003 10:30									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay From the chat with Jon, this appears to be the case. They also seem to be at least even in tech, and likely just a little ahead. (Jon's impression seems to be that it's more than just a little, but if they don't have either Writing or Mysticism yet, the lead probably isn't all that big.)

Since we have dealt with Vox's misplaced hysteria (wc's attacking through tiles of jungle and mountains?) I would tend to think that they are also overestimating the three on the big island.

	27-01-2003 10:59									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'd prefer to underestimate the tech advances of more 'connected' civs.

This is a situation that could be VERY bad...

	27-01-2003 15:54									#13
	Suffering from ads?

I strongly support the initiative- that is, contacting LI and trying to get some information out of them. Delaying this move leaves us longer in the dark- which is just wha Vox wants to happen. We can't allow ourselves to say- we can't see them, so they can't see us and that's good. It's very bad, as you all probably understand. Wars will take time, meanwhile, having neighbors is mostly beneficial, we must assume that by the time we meet other civs, they are more advanced than we.

	27-01-2003 18:06									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The thing about Lux is that they have been unwilling to trade minimaps with every civ, RPG didn't get their map either. But, we have to assume that the other teams know we and Vox are on the same continent, there has been speculation about this between ambassadors.

I'd say wait after the chat with Vox before we contact them, Lux is not that important to us (we can't contact them right away, and most likely they are part of the blockade against us, and not wanting to take on an underdog position just to please us)

DeepO