09-02-2001 00:26									#1
	The Planet Buster Get a bigger avatar today!

D'ya always build'em? If you see a way to reach Orbital Spaceflight (D6) early, do you make a beeline for it? Do you build a Fission reactor one straight away or wait a bit longer for Fusion ones?
And most importantly, do you USE them (with or without the Charter)?

	09-02-2001 14:11									#3
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I build at least one in every game, so nobody can use me as an easy PB victim.
But I wait building them until I got fusion, because the fission PB is to expensive.

And I like to use them, when I am safe from revenge and strong enough to fight against all other factions.
(I don't revoke the charter.)
When I have some def orbs, flechettes for my best bases, and updated my PB's to singularity,
then it's "atrocity time", and the factions who pissed me off will pay for their sins.

	05-02-2002 00:57									#4
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I use 'em all the time

Like the game I'm currently playing, I beat morgan down to 4 bases and left him to shrivel and die on an island. But miriam was committing piracy all along my coast, so I made a pact with the university....and took her out. Then by the time this was done I had 2 fusion PB's. Let's just say morgan's island isn't there anymore

Then overtime I stocked up 9 more (and discovered I can send PB's to friendly bases, just like planes:eek

With the gaians, I finished off the spartans and now it's all of us against yang. Just to be safe, I repealled the UN charter and when on a nuke spree.

9 PB's took out 10 or 11 cities, and turned yang's one large island into a small island chain....god I love my job

	05-02-2002 01:14									#5
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I generally don't use them. IN SP I will conquer the world atrocity-free with choppers and drop units long before anyone gets the PB ability. I also had never been Pb'd before.

However in a MP game I am playing, I am about to eat two fusion PBs and have three of my own underway. The other player has about 60 crawlers so he can build the things real fast. I have retaliated with gas choppers and am capturing my oppents bases at a reasonable rate. I figure that this is a weapon of last resort and that this is an attempt even out the war.


Generally though, I like to avoid Pbs if possible and this is the first MP game in which they were built much less used

	05-02-2002 01:15									#6
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Planet Buster baaaaadd! Short sword goood! Stick short sword in enemies belly and twist. Out gush blood and guts and little bits of liver. Goood! Very Good!

	05-02-2002 01:36									#7
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Flubber,

Opponent with 60 crawlers. Good thing he already prototyped the PB's. Elsewise he could start builds all over his base sites and cash in his crawlers for an instant PB fleet.

Or perhaps I've said too much......



Og

	05-02-2002 02:43									#8
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I love bulding them but never actually use them, unless I get nuked myself (then it's time for revenge), but that has happened in only three games in all my SMAC life. And I never bother with nerve gas (except when I had SMAX and just gased and gased those buggers) because I just love to make research monkeys out of my submissives!

The Gaians have turned out to be my favourite faction to play as now and I usually swarm up enormous amounts of Demon Boils and concentrate on Neural Amplifier and Dream Twister. I really stop carring about advanced weaponry once I get those two SPs! I usually run Demo/Green/Knowledge or Wealth/Cybernetic and then, with a total of +5 PLANET ( ) I go to my quest... atrocity free of course

	05-02-2002 02:46									#9
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I have occasionally used PBs in SP games. I like to have them, but they're not that useful in SP game and far too expensive. It's actually a shame that AI can't make much use of PBs, though I've seen few intense missile strikes by AI against other AI, about 5 missiles each . They were pretty done for after that.

I haven't played much MP yet so I can't say lot about PB's role in human vs human games. But I wonder if not every faction capable of building Planet Busters have few of them. In MP PBs are a sure way to say: "We're superpower, you can't take us down without taking yourself down". I mean, in the real world, anyone who can will build nukes and they are a very useful tool of diplomacy.

	05-02-2002 02:51									#10
	Re: The Planet Buster Full PM-box? Change here!

Planet Buster,, I always build at least 2 in different bases. Seems like if I don't the Hive is more inclined to used them against me once he gets desperate. Although it could just be my imagination.....Ya know, I would not be so paranoid if everyone wasn't trying to kill me !

	05-02-2002 06:01									#11
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Well I just went and continued playing the game I was in (I've been playing it for like a week now), and just used 2 more PB's.....(I couldn't help myself, I had just got quantum reactors)

I had also finally built a space elevator and dropped a LOT of drop pods into yang's territory, but some bases were proving a pain to take, so I used the PB's....the best part was not only did the PB's take out the bases I wanted them to, but they also each took out 2 more

so now it's 11 PB's used
17 cities nuked
4 more under construction
And one damn big hole in the northern hemisphere of planet

god I love my job

	05-02-2002 07:04									#12
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What I like about PBs. 4 of Santiagos units, my pactmate, 2 squares from of Yangs base. I PB Yangs base, Santiagos units vaporize with the base .. She declares no Vendetta ! Cool.

	05-02-2002 11:11									#13
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casualties of war man...

If she's at war with yang too, she won't care...a few units for a few of yangs cities....a good trade if you ask me.

In some of my nuke strikes I even vaporized some of my own units...ah well


One question though...how come the PB's take out cities...but they don't take things like the tidal harnesses etc. out also??

	05-02-2002 12:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sith 123 One question though...how come the PB's take out cities...but they don't take things like the tidal harnesses etc. out also??

If they're in the blast, they are destroyed but I think you're referring to things just outside the blast. My explanation would be that if you hit a base with a big shockwave, the housing and stuff will be smashed open and people will die in the atmosphere, to say nothing of explosions, fires etc. while farms and whatnots will be lower and so less vulnerable. Doen't seem to explain Yang's bases though...

	05-02-2002 15:51									#15
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I like PBs in general, they are most useful and realistic weapons of mass destruction in TBS genre. Nukes in Civ/CTP are bad jokes, we've already built nuclear weapons that are far more destructive. You wouldn't need many of the biggest nukes to take out whole continents...they probably wouldn't be vaporized though . What's the problem with PBs is that they make the game a lot easier. Because AI doesn't really know how to use them - you've won the late game for certain, if you're willing to use PBs...and it seems that most of you are

	06-02-2002 03:34									#16
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well here's what was goin on. Say I've just nuked one of yangs bases, and a base on the coast is turned into an island. It's got the usual things on the one said (like kelp farms, mining platforms, tidal harnesses, and what not), and these things are in the tile right next to the base. When I smoke the base with the nuke, the base is gone.....and other cities around it as well as units.....but the improvements are still there.

And ya...I'm willing to use PB's....it's great..I captured a base with a PB in it, deep in yangs territory (god I love orbital drop pods), and then nuked him again and again..turning lots of bases into ocean bases, that I then capture with my fleet (I've got cruisers, with probability sheath or armor or w/e, and the best guns etc...and yang's still using foils with some pretty low tech stuff, so it's no problem)

I think my PB count is now 13 with 23 cities nuked.
muwahahahahahahaha

	06-02-2002 07:31									#17
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I had a game I just got done with where I was the Lord Believers and due to me having the Gaians and the Morgans as my ***** states, I had had technology and money lead on everybody, but the Spartans were to heavly defend on their massaive landmass on the north for me to do anything.

The land was a landmas directly north of my large one, and a medium sized one wedge inbetween me and the spartans that housed yang, and a connector between the Spartans to the Morgan landmass, well needless to say after I was using Morgan as a springboard I got PB technology and had one of my meduim sized bases build one, I built it as soon as I got quatnum tech and I took out the spartan base that had most of their SP's in it screwing them over. Then I got the Singularty reactor and I built 3 of them destroying 8/10ths of the Spartan holdings and went in and mopping them up, then during the middile of this Santigo launches a PB one of my bases but I had a orbital defense pod which stoped it. While I am mopping up the Spartans Morgan pops a fusion one on Hive terriorty.

Next thing I know I am fighting hordes of Demon bole mindworms everywhere.

	06-02-2002 08:02									#18
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Years ago when I started playing I remember many a game where planet busters flew all over the place. Either the game changed or my play style changed because I can usually now control the situation (i.e. atrocity vote).

	06-02-2002 11:44									#19
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I find PB's useful in some cases.

Like for instance (this has happened twice now), one of my enemies had a HUGE airforce (like 30 fighters I think) and I had to watch them go to one base. BUT as soon as they landed, I threw a PB up their ass and voila...no more huge enemy air force.

(btw is there any way to avoid watching the computer's units moving??)
((and yes, I know holding down shift speeds it up...but still...ya know))

	06-02-2002 18:32									#20
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quote: I think my PB count is now 13 with 23 cities nuked.

Yeah, keep doing the good work (You need help!)

quote: but the Spartans were to heavly defend on their massaive landmass on the north for me to do anything.

Nothing is enough well defended for the warriors of faith. I sweep the planet when playing Believers

quote: one of my enemies had a HUGE airforce (like 30 fighters I think) and I had to watch them go to one base

Despite of AI having a huge air forces, they're pretty helpless since they don't seem to use them(!) I was once in war with my self made faction which had 50+ needlejets and they didn't even tried to make an offense....this brings back memories...I once intercepted a fleet of over 20 Gaian aicrafts en route to their base. Shot them all down of course

quote: (btw is there any way to avoid watching the computer's units moving??)

Nooo!
I thought I had already forgotten CTP2 . After building that idiotic surveillance satellite project I had to watch AI move their units around for hours without any reason. They weren't even in war with anyone! Who programmed that crap...confess

	18-02-2002 20:26									#21
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Can a Human faction use Planet Busters against an Alien faction without all other Human factions declaring Vendetta on them or does the Atrocity Ban have to be lifted first? Also, playing as an Alien I just dropped a Planet Buster on The Hive (he was building one himself) and all Human factions declared Vendetta against me. Does this always happen? What if the Atrocity Ban is lifted (though there's no way the Alien player can know if it has been lifted until after the bombs start falling)?

	18-02-2002 23:52									#22
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I just happened to try this yesterday (after saving the game, didn't want to continue with a bustered poor Marr), and, yes, the other humans declare war if they still hadn't. It was an SP game transcend, random factions, except mine.

	19-02-2002 22:36									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Shai-Hulud After building that idiotic surveillance satellite project I had to watch AI move their units around for hours without any reason.

Have you tried the "Don't center map on units with orders" option? This one is the grand-daddy time-saver for the mid-game and beyond, when AI units start roaming all over the place. Simply position the map where there's few units before ending your turn, and you won't have to see any units moving except for those that fight your units.

Unfortunately I seem to be experiencing some crashes now, but I don't know if it's this option or something else I've done to my system . (Athlon 900MHz, 256MB, both recent upgrades)

	09-03-2002 00:34									#24
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Against the AI I always build at least two PB's but don't plan to use them. Deterrence seems very effective. Well, deterrence and a determined effort to prevent any hostile faction from building its own PB.

Generally, I will pass up OSF in favor of several other techs that are available around the same time (so I can get fusion, Supercollider, tachyon weapons/ TOE - then I go for orbitals). Especially if I don't have the HSA - seems to AI will automatically steal the tech you least want them to have.

	09-03-2002 01:21									#25
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I tend to build one or maybe two at most - the AI seems to be a lot less ready to attack you if you have a PB handy. However, I've never actually used one since my very early games - I remember nuking Yang into a tiny pile of radioactive dust.
Mind you, even then I only ever used them when I had a big enemy whom I couldn't be bothered destroying base-by-base (usually Yang or Zak).

	18-03-2002 16:50									#26
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quote: Have you tried the "Don't center map on units with orders" option?

Well, thanks, never thought of that. Although the chances I'll get back to CTP2 are almost unexistent. Had some nice feature, and other ones just sucked. It...annoys me greatly to see potential spoiled.

quote: ...I had a big enemy whom I couldn't be bothered destroying base-by-base (usually Yang or Zak).

Does the University actually grow big? When, where? I don't remember that happening, ever. It just seems that some factions stay small no matter what. University being one of them.