27-01-2003 21:58									#31
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Just smash a bottle of champagne on his head.

	27-01-2003 22:20									#32
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Get him baptised and circumsized at the same time. Saves money, time, and buys favour with more than one god.

Of course, trying to circumsize a wet, slippery infant may not be the best idea.

	27-01-2003 23:02									#33
	Re: Should I christin(Baptise) my kid Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by TheStinger My little boy Joseph was born on 4th Jan and i don't know whether to have him christianed(I should learn to spell it first). I'm pretty much an agnostic but my Mother and Wife want it. I can't see teh point and think its a little bit hypocritical, or should I just shut uo and have it done.

Well it's not hypocritical if your wife wants it
It's only err 50% hypocritical in your union

Personally I'm so indifferent about that issue that I couldnt care less.

Unfortunately due to the strong hand of the church of Greece I know that if someone found out that my kids were not baptized, they would have a social stigma.

Hoping that this is not the case in the UK, talk it over with your wife and see if you can reach some common ground.

In any case congrats for the baby

	27-01-2003 23:05									#34
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On a separate note, Joseph is a Christian name. So it'd be a bit odd to have a kid with a christian name and not baptize it.
Of course, everything is possible

But you should have named him Alexander or something extra curiculum church
(j/k)

	27-01-2003 23:22									#35
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I was baptised, against my parents better wishes. They drug me and sisters to church, and sat through the duldrum of what it is, despite their lack of faith.

After being confirmed I left the church, so did one of my sisters, the other one still goes to this day.

Point is: Baptism is not for you, discory of faith is a personal journey, one that should not be hindered nor forced on anyone. If your familly wants the child to be baptised then I see no harm in doing so (unless your kid is allergic to water and oils). Also, their is no harm in the child learning about religion, and other religions. My concerns would be that you family will try to force, or brainwash, religion on to the kid so that, in the end, they are not really practicing a faith, just regurgitating it... In this day and age, however, religious schools and clubs can actually help the child to learn valuable and ethical morals and values, where in public schools and clubs these values and morals can be skewed towards a less the perfect and productive life.

Faith should be a matter of choice not one of infliction.

	27-01-2003 23:24									#36
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Stinger:

I'll say no. My church, (Mennonite), as well as the Baptists, have a baby dedication where the parents promise to raise the kid Christian, and the child is brought before our pastor who says a prayer for the child, and introduces him to the church. This is entirely voluntary, mind you, and will not make the child a member of the Church. Baptism is reserved for professing believers, so we wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself.

Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. all baptise infants because they believe that a child who dies young while unbaptised cannot go to heaven.

I was christened in the Anglican church as a family tradition, supposedly inheriting the faith of my parents.
What angered me most was not living in a Christian family, despite my christening, and the fact that my parents did not live up to their end of the bargain. I got re-baptised by the Mennonites after a profession of faith.

If you intend to keep the bargain of raising the family Christian, then you should baptise the child. Otherwise do not. BTW does your wife know you are agnostic? It sounds like a sore point. It takes two believers to do a proper job of a Christian family.

"Baptism without faith is just water."

quote: You might be able to use it as a bargaining counter: "I'll go along with this, if YOU agree not to make the kid go to church or Sunday School".

Jack, how will this help the child? If you are going to raise him Christian, then they should go as a FAMILY to church together. Bargaining chips? You don't bargain faith, my friend.

	27-01-2003 23:27									#37
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Nah, baptism is also tradition. Funnily enough some times it has nothing to do with faith or religion, it's tradition

Especially when religious ceremonies is very integrated into the more general social fabric

	27-01-2003 23:30									#38
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As a Christian myself, I would probably advise against it, as I find the old custom of infant baptism disqusting. Then again, if you don't feel like fighting your wife over it, then it's something it's probably not worth the struggle, as someone mentioned earlier, baptism without faith is just water.

	27-01-2003 23:37									#39
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I remember a friend who was not baptized and we were talking about stuff and he said: "well, in your christian world"

That was so funny

a distinction which was very amuzing since it didnt exist. We were no more "christians" than him and also he was of "this world" too. (had grown up in it doh)

But I wouldnt say baptism without faith is just water.
I dont think you're the one as a parent that defines the baptism.
you and your wife just gave birth to the child, but he/she is his own entity. doesnt belong to you, you just protect and love him/her.
and baptism is about him/her IMHO

	27-01-2003 23:58									#40
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Priest will want you to do it even if you admit to him you are an ateist - I think. You shouldnt feel guilty about lying.

On the other hand -- Church of England!?

Now, be a good lad and return to the Pope

	28-01-2003 00:01									#41
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Thelo na do ton paaapa ton paaaapa ton paaaapa
thelo na do ton papa - thelo - na - ton - do.

	28-01-2003 02:08									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Are you actually going to stand up to your wife over this? Pick your battles carefully, my friend, pick your battles .

Unless you care reallllllll strongly, give it up. Save your points for when you actually care about the result. I'd much rather lose all the little ones that I don't really care about and win the few that really count. Marriage is hard enough these days. I would bet quite a few of the 50% that fail, failed because of arguements started over things that one person really didn't care about. Why create trouble where there needn't be any.

RAH

	28-01-2003 02:19									#43
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 I got re-baptised by the Mennonites after a profession of faith.

Bapistism or not, He'll make up his own mind as an adult.

Just don't ever leave him alone with a priest.

	28-01-2003 02:35									#44
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TheStinger, Why of course, yes. Baptize the baby. You say you are an agnostic. If you really are, you do not know for sure whether there is a god or not. Why don't you simply err on the side of caution?

	28-01-2003 02:50									#45
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Don't do it (unless it's going to cause so much friction it's not worth the argument). Religion is a personal matter - it is for children to decide when they are old enough to understand.

	28-01-2003 06:31									#46
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First off, congrats on the new addition! Hope your getting lots of sleep at nite!
Anyways, somewhere in the next 10 - 15 years Joseph is going to ask you, in an adult manner, as to why you did, or did not, baptize him. Therefore I would say in what manner/ approach do you feel most comfortable having this conversation with him when that time will innevitably arrive? How you decide to answer this I think then should govern your decision.

D