27-01-2003 23:32									#1
	A Dark Side case study Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hello everyone,

A short while ago Arrian posted a save from an Ottoman game where he got a very early Leader through an Archer rush. His proposal was that various players play the "alternate universes" corresponding to the various uses of the Leader to see which use (FP, Pyramids, Army) yielded best results down the line. I thought this was a great idea, and so I hope to reproduce the same idea here.

The Dark Side. How many among you really want to warmonger more but always end up building too many improvements instead? Does a game without Temples or a tech lead sound horribly wrong to you?

Well, this is your chance to (as Theseus puts it) play a center-of-a-black-hole Dark Side type of game.

I've played a Emperor-level game as the Zulu up until 1125BC. As you'll see the start is quite nice, and the Zulu empire has grown quite rapidly. But there has been no warfare yet. Enter you.

Your mission is to take the reigns and play this game as the most bloodthirsty barbarian you've ever imagined. Here are some details about the game that will help in this task (and prevent you from veering toward the Light).

1. You're playing the Zulus. The Zulus are the worst civ choice for the Builder. Your expansionist trait is all but spent. So all that is left is Impi, cheap Barracks and promotions. Yep, you're going to have to do some fighting.

2. You're awfully behind in tech, culture and infrastructure. Tech is the big one here; you have Bronze Working, Pottery and Horseback Riding, while the rest of the world is probably nearing Monarchy or The Republic. Starting your own research at this point is futile, but at least you've got all the techs required to pick a fight and win.

3. Who should you attack first? There is still plenty of room to expand into: should you declare war now, or wait until your REX is over? Remember that the other civs are closing in on the Medieval age.

4. What type of warfare should you pursue? Shoud you oscillate among the nearest neighbors or wipe them out one at a time? Should you form alliances?

5. What are your long-term plans? Are you going to enter a state of perpetual war until Cavalry (and beyond), or will you take a break to regroup? Jumping into The Republic to catch up in tech and build improvements is the call of the Light Side: take no heed!

6. Note that the game uses the AU PTW mod, version 1.15. This should not matter very much, as Horsemen, Impi and Knights (all you'll need) have not been altered in this mod.


Hope some of you have fun with this. Let me know how it turns out. I've attached the save in this post, and I'll put a screenshot of Zululand in the next.


Dominae

Attachment: shaka of the zulu, 1225 bc.zip
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).

	27-01-2003 23:36									#2
	Got spare money?

Zululand, 1225BC:

Attachment: darkside.jpg
This has been downloaded 281 time(s).

Last edited by Dominae on 29-01-2003 at 09:25

	28-01-2003 00:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Dom: Sounds interesting. Right now, I am currently working on my Emperor Ottoman game. You would be so proud. I am very busy through Wednesday, but I might be able to give it a go after that. Maybe I could get some of it done this weekend.

	28-01-2003 00:55									#4
	Support Apolyton

quote: Bronze Working, Pottery and Horseback Riding

Ouch, can't even do Chariot -> Horseman upgrades.

On the upside, I can see an iron resource just north of Swazi, so you could use that substantial treasury on a warrior -> sword upgrade.

As for whom to hit, go South, young man!

I just recently played two games as the Mongols (same traits as the Zulu), so I'm not really in the mood for this one right now (plus, I'm really trying to make progress on a PBEM game I've got going). I'll be interested to see the AARs of those who do play, though.

-Arrian

	28-01-2003 01:23									#5
	Tired of ads?

Edit: Arrian, I just got what you meant. I'm not used to doing Chariot-Horsemen, maybe I should have thought of that beforehand (not 'maybe', definitely). Too bad that you're not up for this one, o Dark One. But I agree that your interesting PBEM game takes precedence.

BRC, you of all people have to try this game. The Zulus are in a superior position as far as I can tell. All they need is a capable ruler to push them to conquer and pillage.


Dominae

	28-01-2003 01:30									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I will be able to start on Thursday. Hopefully I'll have something to post this weekend.

	28-01-2003 01:36									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Am I correct in assuming you popped HBR from a hut?

The first Mongol game I played, I deliberately chose The Wheel as my first tech to research, and then shortly thereafter chose HBR at 10% so that I would not get it from huts. The problem was, even at 40 turns for HBR, I still got it way too soon. I hadn't built a single chariot.

Doh! Timing is everything. It's a lot easier with warrior -> sword upgrades, as all you have to do is wait to connect the iron.

So I ended up going to war with about 5 horsemen. Those 5 eventually became more like 10. They destroyed an empire and generated 2 leaders.

-Arrian

(My gf's email server has been down for a day now - perhaps something to do with that Internet worm thingy - so I may not be able to play the PBEM. In that case maybe I'll try for the first time the joys of horseman/impi stacks).

	28-01-2003 01:38									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Note that the game uses the AU PTW mod, version 1.15.

If I do decide to have a crack at this, I'll have to finally download the AU mod, and figure out how to use it.

-Arrian

	28-01-2003 01:59									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Arrian If I do decide to have a crack at this, I'll have to finally download the AU mod, and figure out how to use it. -Arrian

Since it's a game in progress, the edited rules are stored with the save file. Thus, no need to d/l the AU mod (unless you want to look at the actual edits... but then again, you could just look at the readme in the AU Mod thread).

	28-01-2003 02:00									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Arrian, actually I researched Horseback Riding myself! This goes to show how big a warmonger I am, eh? Sheesh.

You should be able to play the game without downloading AU, since the rules are included in the saves now (since 1.17 or something).


Dominae

	28-01-2003 02:07									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oh, erm, I stupid.

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

-Arrian

	28-01-2003 04:34									#12
	Put an end to popups!

I assume this is the spoiler thread too? Unless you want to make this the next AU.

	28-01-2003 07:17									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Glad to see you're joining the fun, DaveMcW. Feel free to post any results or comments here. This is just a casual thread to get people into being warmongering maniacs (nothing "serious" like AU going on here!).

By the way, sorry everyone for "ruining" the Chariot-Horsemen upgrade...Trust me, you all should do just fine with only Horsemen.




Dominae

	28-01-2003 08:19									#14
	Tired of ads?

Hmmm... looks like some good fun. I usually play swayed far to the builder side, so maybe this will give me a chance to break out and let off some steam... I'll let you know how it goes.

	28-01-2003 08:25									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, I'm sorry to announce it here, but AU 203 has blown up on me... and I was just getting ready to GO!!! Can't get past 1896AD without crashing, I've done a heroic job fighting off Persia (if I do say so myself... Infantry / Arty versus MAs and MIs, and I still took razed 5-6 of Jerxes cities), almost done with Amphib War, so no Panzers.

I'll post what decent AAR stuff I can in that thread over the next week or so...

In the meantime, I'VE GOT MY WARFACE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

	28-01-2003 08:31									#16
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Theseus In the meantime, I'VE GOT MY WARFACE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

	29-01-2003 09:15									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Dominae - after AU 203, I fired up an all-random game. Got the Vikings on what looked like a pangea with max water (standard size map). Vikings, with the archer-to-berzerk path almost screams for an archer rush if the map cooperates (close start positions). With a non-scientific and non-religious civ, early "builder" play was also unattractive. Long and short of it was a domination win with cavs in the late 1200's. I built temples, a few cathedrals, libraries, and a few universities -- but not much until the middle ages. Never left Monarchy. Finished while researching Electricity (as the tech leader).

All this sounds a bit like the posted game. So I will pass for now -- but great jump-start for an exploration of the dark side

Catt

	31-01-2003 05:10									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

1225 BC: Darth Dave seizes control of the Zulu empire from Master Dominae. He trades his world map for everyone's starting techs. The granary in Mpondo becomes a temple. As a true dark jedi, Dave will do no research until his neighbors are wiped out.
We need an enemy. Darth Dave declares war on France. All cities except Zimbabwe and Isandhlwana switch to barracks/warriors.

1175 BC: Marseilles is razed, making way for Zulu occupation of the Incense.

1100 BC: Golden age begins. Darth Dave makes peace with France, getting Mysticism, Writing, Mathematics, and the full world map. Embassies reveal Persia will win the race to the Pyramids, and they don't have any iron! The Iroquois are also close to connecting their horses and need to be dealt with soon.

975 BC: Persia finishes the Pyramids. The iron is connected, and upgrading of 30 warriors begins. Production is changed to horsemen.

775 BC: All swordmen are in place. Darth Dave declares war on Persia.

690 BC: All horsemen are in place. Darth Dave declares war on the Iroquois.

650 BC: Persepolis (Pyramids) captured.

590 BC: Mpande finds new ways to motivate construction of the FP in Persepolis

470 BC: Peace with Iroquois for Middle Ages. Peace with Persia for Monarchy and Monotheism. Revolution. Science Advisor: "We are technologically advanced!"

Here's a screenshot as Darth Dave positions troops on the French border.

Attachment: darth dave.jpg
This has been downloaded 148 time(s).

	31-01-2003 18:54									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I figured, I'd attack the nearest neighbour asap, which was france.

I switched all my production to barracks/warriors and started connecting the iron.

When the road to the iron was eventually built, I had about 20 vet warriors and upgraded them.

I was just thinking about what city to attack first when I got the message that the French had completed the Great Wall in Paris.

The same round the Japanese attacked me but the only units the sent me were weak warriors.

In order to get the Great Wall I headed right for Paris and captured it. After capturing another two French cities and razing two, I made peace for a couple of techs and another French city.

I also made peace with the Japanese, I got three techs, a world map, and 16 g (all they got) but I had to give them monarchy in exchange.

Now it's 590 BC and I have all ancient techs except for currency and philosophy and I am technologically advanced.

My next target will be the Persians and then I'll attack the Japanese if the Iroquis won't attack me first.

I will conquer the Iroquis once I have knights.

Last edited by badman on 31-01-2003 at 19:21