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Promethus is offline Promethus
Settler
Battle Creek, Michigan
Jan 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:08
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MS learns the meaning of the word &quot;Ironic&quot; Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Worm Hits Microsoft, Which Ignored Own Advice
By JOHN SCHWARTZ


The frantic message came from the corporation's information technology workers: "HELP NEEDED: If you have servers that are nonessential, please shut down."

The computer system was under attack by a rogue program called SQL Slammer, which affected servers running Microsoft software that had not been updated with a patch — issued months ago — to fix the vulnerability. The worm hindered the operations of hundreds of thousands of computers, slowed Internet traffic and even disrupted thousands of A.T.M. terminals.

But this wasn't happening at just any company. It was occurring at Microsoft itself. Some internal servers were affected, and service to users of the Microsoft Network was significantly slowed.

The disruption was particularly embarrassing for Microsoft, which has been preaching the gospel of secure computing. On Jan. 23, the company's chairman, Bill Gates, sent a memo to customers describing progress in improving its products since he announced a "trustworthy computing" initiative a year ago.

"While we've accomplished a lot in the past year, there is still more to do," he wrote. He cited the hundreds of millions spent to shore up Microsoft's products, and its plans to deliver more secure products in the future. He also listed "things customers can do to help." The first item was "stay up to date on patches."

The paradox was not lost on computer security experts. "Microsoft has been blaming the users, saying they have to keep their patches up to date," said Bruce Schneier, founder and chief technical officer of Counterpane Internet Security Inc., a company that manages security for customers. "On the other hand, their own actions demonstrate how unrealistic that position is."

A spokesman for Microsoft, Rick Miller, confirmed that a number of the company's machines had gone unpatched, and that Microsoft Network services, like many others on the Internet, experienced a significant slowdown. "We, like the rest of the industry, struggle to get 100 percent compliance with our patch management," he said.

"We recognize — now more than ever — that this is something we need to work on. And, like the rest of the industry, we're working to fix it."

**********
And they said "It Can't Happen Here!"

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:11 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Got spare money?

When you directly employ 40,000 people it's a given that quite a few of them do lots of stupid things.

Promethus is offline Promethus
Settler
Battle Creek, Michigan
Jan 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:15
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Asher

And just how many of them do you suppose will be told "Here's your hat, what's your hurry?" and be shown the door?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:17 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I'd suppose that's a real threat for quite a few people.

It's now policy in MS that your job is on the line if there's a security vulnerability in code that you create, so this can be seen as an extension of that...

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:22
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Great article, Prometheus.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:25 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The article didn't seem very funny to me, probably because Microsoft is largely a disorganized mess as a company.

It's more like a coalition of dozens of companies reporting to the same CEO and the same bottom line rather than one large company.

I bet that the division that made SQL Server had their side patched up. The parts of MS that usually didn't patch are things like Microsoft Game Studios (Asheron's Call 2 was offline for a couple days due to this)...it's not one big machine like lots of people like to envision it.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:28
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quote:
The article didn't seem very funny to me, probably because Microsoft is largely a disorganized mess as a company.


You must not have a sense of humor. Odd for a Canadian; humor is about the only thing you guys do well.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:30 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

I don't find things that are to be expected to be funny...especially when they prevent me from playing my favorite games.

Timexwatch is offline Timexwatch
King
Columbia Heights, Washington D.C.
Jul 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:31
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If that was the policy, the whole place would've been turned over sometime in the early 90s....

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 10:32 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Timexwatch
If that was the policy, the whole place would've been turned over sometime in the early 90s....

True. It only became policy with the Trustworthy Computing campaign just about a year old now...

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
Prince

Dec 2001
time: 06:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The article didn't seem very funny to me, probably because Microsoft is largely a disorganized mess as a company.

It's more like a coalition of dozens of companies reporting to the same CEO and the same bottom line rather than one large company.

I bet that the division that made SQL Server had their side patched up. The parts of MS that usually didn't patch are things like Microsoft Game Studios (Asheron's Call 2 was offline for a couple days due to this)...it's not one big machine like lots of people like to envision it.


And it shows how realistic their expectations in large companies are.
Microsoft wasn´t even able to have all the companies within its corporate network follow the same security guidelines.
But they obviously expect this from other large companies.
Or with the words of Bruce Schneier:

quote:

The paradox was not lost on computer security experts. "Microsoft has been blaming the users, saying they have to keep their patches up to date," said Bruce Schneier, founder and chief technical officer of Counterpane Internet Security Inc., a company that manages security for customers. "On the other hand, their own actions demonstrate how unrealistic that position is."

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:14
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Suffering from ads?

Awesome

I wonder if Microsoft hires only MCSEs to administer their servers? If so, how useless can that cert be?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:33 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Since a MS thread is already here: http://www.msnbc.com/news/865157.asp?0bl=-0

quote:
Judge quashes some Microsoft suits

Consumer antitrust suits in four states are tossed out

WASHINGTON, Jan. 27 — A federal judge Monday granted a motion by Microsoft Corp. to throw out five of the consumer antitrust lawsuits filed against the company in four states. U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz struck down lawsuits filed in Connecticut, Kentucky, Maryland and Oklahoma, saying laws in those states do not allow consumers to collect damages from Microsoft unless they purchased software directly from the company.

MOST CONSUMERS purchase Microsoft’s Windows operating system and the its other software through retailers or get it pre-installed on the computers they buy.
In each of the cases dismissed on Monday, Motz said, state courts have ruled that so-called indirect purchasers cannot collect damages.
The cases are part of a slew of class-action lawsuits filed against Microsoft on behalf of consumers in the wake of the government’s landmark antitrust case against the company.
The judge is overseeing many of the consumer lawsuits, as well as civil cases filed by Sun Microsystems Inc., AOL Time Warner Inc. unit Netscape Communications, Be Incorporated and Burst.com.
In the class-action cases before Motz, the plaintiffs allege Microsoft abused its monopoly power to prevent competition in the market for personal computer operating systems, leveraged its Windows monopoly to obtain monopolies in the markets for word processing and spreadsheet software and used its monopoly positions in these markets to overcharge purchasers of Windows, Word, Excel and Office software.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, in 2001, reviewed the government suit and agreed that Microsoft had illegally maintained its monopoly in the Windows computer operating system but rejected breaking the company in two to prevent future violations.
A settlement of the government suit was endorsed by U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly in November, although Massachusetts and West Virginia are appealing.


Discuss...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:38
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That will be appealed for sure.

What I would like to know is the legal basis for such a motion.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:39 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I'm sure that will go over well with the current government.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:41
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quote:
I'm sure that will go over well with the current government.


The executive branch doesn't have much say in the matter. Seperation of powers and all that...

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:42 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The executive branch doesn't have much say in the matter. Seperation of powers and all that...

I'm well aware of how it all works in theory.

Bush has somewhat intervened before to help MS, remember...

And I'm not sure how an appeal would help anyway. The laws in those states specify they can only get money back if they purchased the products directly from MS. Appealing ain't gonna change that...

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:43
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
I'm well aware of how it all works in theory.


In theory? Do you think it works any differently in reality? If so, please explain how the executive branch is going to have any influence in this matter...

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:44 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
In theory? Do you think it works any differently in reality? If so, please explain how the executive branch is going to have any influence in this matter...

Bush before ordered that MS not be broken up, which intervened with the Appeals court...

Edit: And yes, I know he did this by pulling strings and ordering the DoJ to not persue it, but still...he can pull strings.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:51
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quote:
Edit: And yes, I know he did this by pulling strings and ordering the DoJ to not persue it, but still...he can pull strings.


Yes he can pull strings, but only within the executive branch. The Department of Justice is the executive branch's personal law firm; of course Bush has influence over them.

In this case, however, you're dealing with independent lawyers and plaintiffs. Bush can't call off the dogs here, as he has no control over them. This case is totally in the judicial branches hands and Bush will have little to no influence over it.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:56 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Fair enough, but if they're dumb enough to appeal this, they're all losing their own money.

The laws in those four states are pretty clear in that they must buy directly from MS, which the plaintiffs did not do, which is why they were all thrown out of court...

I don't see how an appeal is going to go back in time and rewrite those laws.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
And I'm not sure how an appeal would help anyway. The laws in those states specify they can only get money back if they purchased the products directly from MS. Appealing ain't gonna change that...


IANAL, but if the cases are waiting for a hearing, that means the courts think that they have merit.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 14:58
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I don't think they're going to win on appeal either. You have to make a pretty strong case to overturn a lower court's decision.

Ari Rahikkala is offline Ari Rahikkala
King
Unreported loss of streaming in atomic read operation
Oct 1999
time: 07:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 15:25 Visit Ari Rahikkala's homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What, I thought MS ran FreeBSD on all their internal servers ...

OneFootInTheGrave is offline OneFootInTheGrave
Prince
Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 16:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ari Rahikkala
What, I thought MS ran FreeBSD on all their internal servers ...


I think they have switched recently : to " total lower cost of ownership" model running their own servers.

Lower cost of ownership my a$$, marketing gurus, that is what MS is really good at.

Wraith is offline Wraith
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 18:33
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--"The parts of MS that usually didn't patch are things like Microsoft Game Studios"

I'll check my NANOG mails when I get in to work, but one of their divisions that was hit was either their security initiative division or the group that publishes patches...

Wraith
To the memory of the Lost Signature

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 28-01-2003 19:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What I would like to know is the legal basis for such a motion.

It was spelled out, rather simply, even for a layman with minimal reading ability, in the article excerpt posted above.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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  Old Post 28-01-2003 19:28
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For a lawyer, your comprehension ability is quite dismal. Or maybe that's normal for lawyers?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 05:06
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

http://www.idleworm.com/tch/msadv.shtml

Here's a great link about Microsoft's success.

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