28-01-2003 20:16									#31
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Our best evidence comes from human intelligence sources. That is spies. That is Iraqi military officers who have turned to our side and are "agents in place" ie moles - providing info. You tell the world what they have provided us and Saddam will check back to see who had access, to find the mole.

Again, how come what Dubya has couldn't convince the Germans and the French? I am sure their leaders have high enough clearance to have access to all this information.

	28-01-2003 20:23									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It mostly has to do with politicians trying to stay in office when faced with strong anti-war feelings of the populace and a weak economy. That along with dislike for Bush personnally and a knee jerk reaction to stick a finger in the U.S.'s eye when ever possible, especially by Gerhard.

That's just lame. If W. Bush has some serious stuff, it means when the US military attack, they will find CBN weapons, so any attempt at poking the US in the eye will just come back to them.

I don't buy this explanation for a second.

	28-01-2003 20:24									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Again, how come what Dubya has couldn't convince the Germans and the French?

The French are likely going to come along with us at the end of the day. So, I wouldn't worry too much about them.

	28-01-2003 20:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark well you've nailed down the real question - whats the cost of not providing a smoking gun

Give Blix the info. The weapons inspectors can show the world what a lying bastard Saddam is.

	28-01-2003 20:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The French are likely going to come along with us at the end of the day. So, I wouldn't worry too much about them.

I got some prime estate on Mars, real cheap.

	28-01-2003 20:27									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I got some prime estate on Mars, real cheap.

We'll see who's right in the end but given the wiggle room the French have left themselves I don't think that I have much to worry about.

	28-01-2003 20:33									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Give Blix the info. The weapons inspectors can show the world what a lying bastard Saddam is.

but the workd will learn that after the war is over anyway. What is the benefit of letting them know NOW (At cost to sources and methods) ????

	28-01-2003 20:34									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Again, how come what Dubya has couldn't convince the Germans and the French? I am sure their leaders have high enough clearance to have access to all this information.

I believe that he has convinced them - chirac and schroeder both know that Saddam has WMD.

	28-01-2003 20:40									#39
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Chirac & Schroeder both know Saddam has WoMD but they are more concerned with getting reelected and staying popular in the polls then with doing anything about it. They figure they can just ignore it, in favor of more pressing issues, and the problem will go away.

	28-01-2003 20:41									#40
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Yet last I heard, they aren't for attacking Iraq without at least giving more time to the inspectors.

" but the workd will learn that after the war is over anyway. What is the benefit of letting them know NOW (At cost to sources and methods) ????"

What cost? What if there isn't any? Will the W. cabinet collectively commit seppuku?

	28-01-2003 20:43									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Give Blix the info. The weapons inspectors can show the world what a lying bastard Saddam is.

U.N. Resolution 1441 not only requires Saddam to do lots of stuff, it requires all nations to turn over any information they have on Iraq's WMD to the inspectors. If the U.S. has been holding out, it is in violation of 1441.

So, how long before a U.N. coalition invades the U.S.?

	28-01-2003 20:50									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Those are the weakest excuses I've ever seen, LOTM.

You might not think it was so weak if you were the one Saddam was going to execute nor would you think it was weak if you were thinking of become an informer in some other god forsaken hell hole of a country.

	28-01-2003 20:50									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler U.N. Resolution 1441 not only requires Saddam to do lots of stuff, it requires all nations to turn over any information they have on Iraq's WMD to the inspectors. If the U.S. has been holding out, it is in violation of 1441. So, how long before a U.N. coalition invades the U.S.?

I didn't know that. Thanks

	28-01-2003 20:51									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler U.N. Resolution 1441 not only requires Saddam to do lots of stuff, it requires all nations to turn over any information they have on Iraq's WMD to the inspectors. If the U.S. has been holding out, it is in violation of 1441.

Does anyone have a copy of 1441 so we can see if it actually says this? Also by having the actual text in front of us we might better be able to decid is Saddam violated it or not.

	28-01-2003 20:52									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Yet last I heard, they aren't for attacking Iraq without at least giving more time to the inspectors.

Which is hardly proof that they arent convinced. could be for one of several reasons

1. They want to pressure the US to compromise its sources and methods - this would weaken US intel in the long term, which is desirable if you fear the growth of US hegemony.

2. They dont want the US to take out Saddam despite the WMD, and think this will effectively stop US action.

3. They are unwilling to defy domestic opinion based on info they cant reveal to their constituents.

	28-01-2003 20:54									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler U.N. Resolution 1441 not only requires Saddam to do lots of stuff, it requires all nations to turn over any information they have on Iraq's WMD to the inspectors. If the U.S. has been holding out, it is in violation of 1441. So, how long before a U.N. coalition invades the U.S.?

Indeed, 1441 does require US to turn over intel. In order to make this possible US wanted a security cleared guy (a canadian, i seem ot recall ??) on the inspection team to handle the intel. Blix would give on that.

	28-01-2003 20:55									#47
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I'll sell you the Brooklyn bridge LOTM...

	28-01-2003 20:55									#48
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Indeed, 1441 does require US to turn over intel. In order to make this possible US wanted a security cleared guy (a canadian, i seem ot recall ??) on the inspection team to handle the intel. Blix would give on that.

Pardon - meant to type "Blix wouldnt give on that"

	28-01-2003 20:59									#49
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Hmmm. Just ran a search on the U.N.'s website under Security Counsel Resolutions for "1441." The search reported "no hits." This means either that Resolution 1441 is a myth or that I have no idea what I'm doing.

	28-01-2003 21:00									#50
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quote: I'll sell you the Brooklyn bridge LOTM...

Maybe you can trade him for a brain instead....

	28-01-2003 21:04									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I'll sell you the Brooklyn bridge LOTM...

I walked across the Brooklyn Bridge, and biccled across it. Its a beautifuf bridge with beautiful views of both Manhattan and Brooklyn. Of course the view of Manhattan will never be the same

	28-01-2003 21:06									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Hmmm. Just ran a search on the U.N.'s website under Security Counsel Resolutions for "1441." The search reported "no hits."

Security Council Resolution 1441

	28-01-2003 21:08									#53
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You have no idea what you were doing

quote: 10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;

	28-01-2003 21:10									#54
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I beat you to it, UR.

	28-01-2003 21:19									#55
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Dino: Your url asks for a user name and password. UR what URL did you get your copy from and I'll read that one.

	28-01-2003 21:28									#56
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LOTM - 9-11 is not linked to Iraq, think with your head, not your heart.

	28-01-2003 21:31									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Dino: Your url asks for a user name and password.

Strange. It didn't do that for me.

	28-01-2003 21:35									#58
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quote: LOTM - 9-11 is not linked to Iraq, think with your head, not your heart.

You should read the paper, Sava. The Iraq-Al Qaeda linkage has strengthened considerably in the past few days.

	28-01-2003 21:42									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sava LOTM - 9-11 is not linked to Iraq, think with your head, not your heart.

I will not start that debate in this thread - I was not making a substantive point - but then neither were you in the post i responded too - you were (presumably) trying to be funny - i found it very unfunny.

	28-01-2003 21:43									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: LOTM - 9-11 is not linked to Iraq, think with your head, not your heart. You should read the paper, Sava. The Iraq-Al Qaeda linkage has strengthened considerably in the past few days.

I wonder why.