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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I've been reading the papers, watching the news, surfing online, and there have not been any stories about Al Qaeda connections in Iraq. Post a link, prove me wrong...
But then again, I don't expect you guys to make the distinction between people from the Middle East. There are lots of people who think of the entire region as one group. Since a handful of terrorists carried out 9-11, we should take it out on all Muslims...  |
I dont hink we should take anythoing out on muslims - i think we should liberate muslims, as we have done in afganistan.
Even if Iraq is not connected with Al qaeeda, saddam has supported terrorism - inlcuding assasinations of iraqi dissidents abroad, funds to support suicide bombing by Hamas, and of course the attempt to assasinate ex-President Bush.
Re al qaeeda - we know that Zarqawi, a high level AL qaeeda operative passed through Iraq after 9-11 - we dont yet have public proof that the iraqi govt knew it, or what contact they had with him. WE also know that the Kurds report that prisoners caputred form al ansar, a group affiliated with Al qaeeda, have acknowledged recieiving help from Iraqi intelligence - Saddams defenders claim that the Kurds are biased, and that nothing that comes from prisoners under their control can be believed.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Che: Then why is their official name the Islamic Republic of Iraq? |
Who knows, but it's still a secular government.
quote:
Alos where did you get those figures about people killed in war and industrial casualties per year? I would like to know. |
The numbers of those killed in war or US instigated actions (i.e., the Chilean coup or the Contra rebels) was compiled by former CIA agent John Stockwell. The number was ten million in the late 1980s. To that need to be added all those killed since then.
Industrial casualities and deaths to unsafe products are a bit harder to nail down, since I don't have all the data. Be that as it may, 400,000 people in the US die every year due to cigarette smoking, i.e., they use a product as it's intended and it kills them. Regardless of personal responsibility, we allow companies to profit off the deaths and sickness of others. Add to this approximately 75,000 Americans who die in industrial accidents or because of work-related diseases (source: Chicago Reader). So we have 475,000 a year right there.
Autos aren't made as safe as they could be, or vehicals that are dangerous to others are allowed on the road (SUVs), health care decisions made by accountants not doctors, over-worked medical staff, over-worked truckers, foods high in fat and sodium, factory farming turning uncooked meat into a biohazard, etc. All these decicions are made not for what is best for the consumer, but what is best for profitability.
Yes, we give people the choice of whether or not to kill themselves in many cases (even if they aren't fully informed or are mislead as to the consequences of thei actions), but nonetheless, you can't claim we put a high value on human life when we value profits before it. In fact, there is no law in the US or its states that allow a corporate or company manager or executive to be charged with murder or neglegent homocide if they knowingly send a worker to die (as one horrifying iron tubing company routinely does). The maximum sentence they can recieve is under five years, if they even get charged.
The truth is, we don't value human life anywhere near what we claim to do. Look at all the chicken hawks who are demanding war, knowing that it will kill many thousands of Iraqis, just because Iraq got a B+ instead of an A+ from Blix.
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Go to this listing, and scroll down to find Resolution 1441. It's a Acrobat document. |
Yep, this works.
And here we have said passage where the Memberstates of the UN are requested to provide Informations and Support to the inspectors:
quote:
10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;
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Adam Smith
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Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Deaths due to unsafe working conditions don't just include on the job accidents. They also include people who get diseases from the products with which they work. I didn't even include people who live downwind or downstream from toxic sites. |
You should read better. The data I cited include deaths from both accidents and from illnesses. I have some data at home on off-site deaths from illnesses. They are much smaller than occupational deaths because the level of exposure is correspondingly lower.
edit:
PS: While I hate tobacco companies, cigarettes are also sold in non-capitalist countries. How can you then attribute these deaths to the profit motive? (cross posted on this originally)
Last edited by Adam Smith on 29-01-2003 at 00:08
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:25
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quote:
WASHINGTON — In the days following the Sept. 11 attacks, Secretary of State Colin Powell could find "no clear link" between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
One soon appeared. On Sept. 24, 2001, I reported: "The clear link between the terrorist in hiding [Osama] and the terrorist in power [Saddam] can be found in Kurdistan, that northern portion of Iraq protected by U.S. and British aircraft. . . . Kurdish sources tell me (and anyone else who will listen) that the Iraqi dictator has armed and financed a fifth column of Al Qaeda mullahs and terrorists. . . ."
The C.I.A. would not listen. Through credulous media outlets, the agency — embarrassed by its pre-Sept. 11 inadequacies — sought to discredit all intelligence about this force of 600 terrorists. Called Ansar al Islam, and led by Osama's Arabs trained in Afghanistan, they were sent in with Saddam's support to establish an enclave in the no-flight zone. One assignment was to assassinate the free Kurds who made up the only anti-Saddam leadership inside Iraq.
Well armed and financed by both Iraq and Iran, this affiliate of Al Qaeda has since provided a haven for bin Laden followers exfiltrating from Afghanistan. They tried to assassinate an articulate Kurdish leader, Barham Salih, killing several bodyguards, but their target escaped and several killers were captured. Our National Security Council members did not learn about this bloody engagement, one of them told me a week afterward, until they read about it in The Times.
The Kurds induced the captives and some defectors to reveal that the Ansar cell of Al Qaeda had begun producing poisonous chemicals for export. One product was reported here to be a cyanide cream being smuggled through Turkey. The operation was set up by a man with a limp, the informants said, a key bin Laden lieutenant, Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi. ( I misspelled that name a few weeks ago.)
The C.I.A. continued to pooh-pooh any connection between Ansar and Saddam. But reporter Jeff Goldberg of The New Yorker and more recently C. J. Chivers of The Times went into Iraq and interviewed some of the captured terrorists. Such reporting eroded the "no clear link" line put out by opponents of action against Saddam.
Late last summer, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declared publicly "There are Al Qaeda in a number of locations in Iraq," which was met with a derisive "no one's got proof" headline. The C.I.A. resisted a proposal to send a covert force into Iraqi Kurdistan to destroy the secret chemical weapons lab.
On Oct. 8 of last year President Bush made public a little more of what we learned. "Some Al Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq," he told a Cincinnati audience. "These include one very senior Al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks."
That was Zarqawi. Long sought in Jordan for terrorist attacks (most recently the assassination of the U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley in Amman), he joined bin Laden in Afghanistan. After the Taliban defeat, Zarqawi slipped out of that country through Iran and made his way to a Baghdad hospital, where his injured leg was treated or amputated, certainly with the knowledge of Saddam's mukhabarat secret police. He was then dispatched to Al Qaeda's Ansar cell in Iraqi Kurdistan, reported the captives who worked with him in the mountains, to create the terrorist poison laboratory.
British intelligence believes the limping terrorist took one of his products, ricin, to Algerian contacts in Turkey. This is a poison that can be delivered in warheads and one well known to Iraqi chemists, who cannot speak to U.N. inspectors. Two weeks ago, a British detective, Stephen Oake, was killed arresting Algerians suspected of making ricin in North London.
American "counterterrorism officials" are still in angry denial about the pattern they refused to see that connects Qaeda terrorists in hiding with Iraqi terrorists in power.
But even the Bush administration's most reluctant warrior has come to accept the validity of the link that embattled Kurds have been trying to warn us of since Sept. 11: Saddam and the followers of bin Laden are bedfellows.
Iraq, concluded Secretary of State Colin Powell this weekend in Switzerland, has "clear ties to terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda." |
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28-01-2003 22:03
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