28-01-2003 19:30									#1
	Diplomacy for the next turns Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We just discovered the Germans so it's time to discuss what our diplomatic policies should be. A number of questions arise:

1) After the non-tresspassing treaties were signed, we pretty much ignored the Austrians, in preparation for war. Do we wish to change this policy now that we've contacted the Germans?

So far the Germans refused to exchange maps, even after threatening them. But it's not unusual for civs to be very reluctant towards signing any treaties on the first turn, if you walk onto one of their cities. If we agree to withdraw and possibly give some gold, they may very well be more receptive in the next turn or the turns after that.

2) How far should we go in giving them gifts? Should we offer to withdraw? Should we give gold (and how much?)

3) What kind of relationship do we want with these 2 civs? War, peace, non-tresspassing, neutral? It doesn't seem wise to go to war with both of them but most of us seem to agree (at least until this point) that war was necessary for successful expansion. So who's gonna be our first victim, if anyone?

Please post your ideas...

	28-01-2003 19:50									#2
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Well, my opinion is known... If I was playing this alone I would try to get a peace treaty and maybe even more with both of them and expand south. Since I'm not and have to go along with the warmongering here:

I'd say if we have to go to war then we should choose one civ to battle while trying to get the other one as close to us as possible. Give them gifts, maps, whatever they need (except cities of course) and try getting a military agreement. If we had a peace treaty with the Austrians now this road of action would be quite easy now. Since we don't we can still choose between the two civs but there's also the risk both of them decide to annihilate us. As for chances - I'd say either Germany or Austria is similarly likely to accept so decide on the personality. That's not my field of expertise though - someone knowing all the strategy files will have to tell us.

	28-01-2003 19:51									#3
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we'll fight at least one of them, and germany is abit too far...
so lets go take care of Austria, be nutral to germans for now, there are more civs to meet

	28-01-2003 20:36									#4
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Germany are stronger, and what looks like, on much faster terrain, so pummel the Austrians first. Keep the Germans happy while we're dealing with the Austrians.

	28-01-2003 21:21									#5
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Austria have to go first. It'll be quicker and easier to invade them first because of the two rivers leading from us to them.

Be friendly with the Germnas then. Keep them off our backs! And get their map!

	29-01-2003 05:05									#6
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but whats the personality of ther germans?

	29-01-2003 07:11									#7
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We should make peace with the Germans and offer to leave their territory. I am reluctant to give money without something in exchange.

	29-01-2003 07:24									#8
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"Our words are backed by slighty pointy sticks"

	29-01-2003 07:36									#9
	Got spare money?

True, we are not powerful enough to impose anything.

	29-01-2003 08:03									#10
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after we get their map we should just ignore them

	30-01-2003 13:26									#11
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make the germans friends if possible, money should only spent initially a little to make them like us, everything else (except cities of course) can be given freely, we don't need to move through their terrain, if we don't want to battle them. and though i'm strongly opposing any attack on austria at the moment, i have to agree, they would be the not as impossible prey (easy would be the wrong word here).

but our main strategy should be to expand east/south while maintaining strong forces on the border/s.

	30-01-2003 13:41									#12
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For the main reason not to be unfriendly with the Germans is, that we don't know how big they are. So until we know (map-exchange) how big they are, we should try to stay friendly, BUT not by all means.

We could use money ourselfs... rushbying some defence or however you want to call archers

For the Austrians:

Till we haven't got our second town ready, we shouldn't change our attitude......

	30-01-2003 17:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins "Our words are backed by slighty pointy sticks"

Ah but a slightly pointy stick in the eye can sting a little, i know from my misplaced youth

Well for some reason, and a little out of my normal CTP2 character, i've been spoiling for war with the austrians. So lets go for them as Germany are too strong, and start to build relationships with germany - just little stuff to begin with if our gold is low(we might need it to rush- buy things), like non-trespass etc and keep our diplomatic tone either 'meek'(yes i hate that) or 'Magnanimous/kind'.
Depending on how the germans view us and if their leader is good/bad, we could even offer them our maps as a gesture of goodwill if it would help our diplomatic standing with them......basicaly kiss ass big time(hmmm..I hate that too).
If we go to war with Austria we need to make sure we won't get any surprises from the germans.
With our second and maybe third city up and running we will be able to take out austria and expand our empire at the same time.
Lets just hope we don't become the 'Poland' in this situation

EDIT... Or Plan2, we could attack the germans in Dussoldorf to get a city quick and continue to be nice to the austrians?How long before we have ranged units?

	31-01-2003 06:28									#14
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we cant take Dussoldorf, only burn it

and we must invade Austria, the earlier the better!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

	31-01-2003 19:42									#15
	Re: Diplomacy for the next turns Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Locutus So far the Germans refused to exchange maps, even after threatening them. But it's not unusual for civs to be very reluctant towards signing any treaties on the first turn, if you walk onto one of their cities. If we agree to withdraw and possibly give some gold, they may very well be more receptive in the next turn or the turns after that.

I think we should ask the Germans for a map exchange again and threat them if necessary.

-Martin

	01-02-2003 00:15									#16
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We shouldn't be thinking about war with any of the civs at this point. Let's wait til we have archers and a second or third city.

We really need a peace treaty with at least one of them. It is possible that neither the germans nor the austrians will agree to a treaty. So we 'll have to try to get a peace treaty with both. The first civ that agrees lives, the other civ will die.

	01-02-2003 23:20									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Zacharov We shouldn't be thinking about war with any of the civs at this point. Let's wait til we have archers and a second or third city. We really need a peace treaty with at least one of them. It is possible that neither the germans nor the austrians will agree to a treaty. So we 'll have to try to get a peace treaty with both. The first civ that agrees lives, the other civ will die.

I don't think about war with the Germans I only think about threatening the Germans, from my experience it is very likely that they will agree and their attitude towards us would be improved as we signed a treaty.

-Martin

	02-02-2003 00:55									#18
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If anyone knows how to deal with Germans i would think it would be Martin but in this case i would say tread lightly around the Germans, theyre not our main concern.

	02-02-2003 01:01									#19
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Well... I think they are *more of a concern* that the austrians... they're stronger and we have a worse relationship... not that Austrians are big friends... but...

	02-02-2003 01:07									#20
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We've pretty much decided to go to war with the Austrians first because theyre weaker, so i would say theyre still our main concern. Assimilate the weak to conquer the strong... i just made that up.