31-01-2003 18:27									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

near the coal it will take a little longer but it pays out with production
production=warriors=WAR

	31-01-2003 18:32									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Growth = pop = much more production, commerce = better everything.

You just can't go wrong with food first... as long as you have *some* productive/commercial land in the radius.

Although ultimately PW is important... growth is *MORE* important at this stage of the game.

	31-01-2003 18:49									#33
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Growth and Production explain why I would prefer our settler to create a new city near the place where Dave is currently waiting for our orders.

	31-01-2003 19:19									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That site is too far away... for now...

First... its tougher to defend a more spread out empire...

Second... the longer we delay the building of the second city, the longer it will take it to grow, for the resources to defend ourselves, and the means to develop new technologies, to appear.

Any concern that the cities would be too close together is moot... that wouldn't affect us until they were relatively large... and at some future date, when we are safe(r) empire reorganization can take place.

MrBaggins

	31-01-2003 19:37									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

well i don't belive in empire reoganization. city places should be planned carefull from the beginning. i still go for that coal site, it will grow slow but produce a lot of ... well, that can be decided later :;

and btw, whats a spud? altavista.com translates it into german as a spud, which is rather silly since there ain't such a word in german. the only spud i know is a character in trainspotting

	31-01-2003 19:48									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Both spots have advantages.

On the one hand South of the potato we have an erea with a lot of food boni for fast growth and the spot is near our capital, so it is easy to move troops from one city to the other city.

On the other hand North of the coal we a have a grassland tile, that would give us some initial food and the tiles around give us production for warrior pruduction. But the place is far away from our capital, in comparision of the other place.

So far I think it is more important to have to have more production for warriors in order to defend our cities, there is no use for a fast growing city if we don't have an army that can protect it. Therefore I go for the coal spot.

-Martin

	31-01-2003 19:54									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This isn't an either/or choice... its a question of what first... we need bigger cities... for more production, and to produce yet more settlers.

The subsequent city can be founded later.

There is also nothing wrong with a little empire reorganization; a city 'in the wrong place' can become a settler factory in the early-mid game... that you use to expand into a new empire cap, after government change.

	31-01-2003 20:16									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins There is also nothing wrong with a little empire reorganization; a city 'in the wrong place' can become a settler factory in the early-mid game... that you use to expand into a new empire cap, after government change.

sometimes thats necessary (for instance, if the "give the poor people in that ugly city you just freed a new beautiful home" button doesn't work).

but those "settler-production-facilities" never turn out very effective, if you want them to produce fast (and be secure, that city would be a border city! in this case) you have to build up some infrastucture/buildings (mills, citywalls...) first. and all that effort only to be abandoned later? NO!

	31-01-2003 20:24									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox sometimes thats necessary (for instance, if the "give the poor people in that ugly city you just freed a new beautiful home" button doesn't work).

You mean the City Capture Code, year there is a small bug in the current version, that will cause to disappear the resettled people, like bloothbath but without the diplomacy penalty. Or do you mean the enslavement button. I hope I fixed this for the next version of this code you could loose some of your cities if they received to many slaved. Oh and don't try to put a lot of units into the city cycle before you could loose them, too.

quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox but those "settler-production-facilities" never turn out very effective, if you want them to produce fast (and be secure, that city would be a border city! in this case) you have to build up some infrastucture/buildings (mills, citywalls...) first. and all that effort only to be abandoned later? NO!

I agree we would have to put to much ressources into this settler factory, we need production now and not later when the enemy had overrun us.

-Martin

	31-01-2003 20:26									#40
	Support Apolyton

So you favor getting overrun by the Germans and Austrians, so we *could* have had a 'pretty' empire, had we not been conquered, then?

MrBaggins

	31-01-2003 20:28									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Another reason to settle nearby:

Let's say we build the city in 2 turns from now.
This would mean we can start production/growth.

The other place it like 6 turns away.
Makes a difference of 4 turns, which is the time for one warrior and already the jump from 1 to 2. So, it isn't really any choice, or?

Figures might vary a bit......

	31-01-2003 20:34									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

We'll get FAR FAR more production by going with the Potato... now... the extra pop means collecting from more squares, even if they do produce less production.

The city square for the Potato site, is on a grassland river... and gets 100% of that production and food bonus. Its probably as or more productive as size 1 or 2... and certainly more productive in terms of commerce.

The Coal site will simply grow too slowly... the Potato is a big food bonus. The extra potential production from the mountains/coal will not be seen til many more turns later than the Potato site.

We also will have a 2 turn head start on growth, going with the potato site.

Regarding the 'settler factory' the 'lost production' of a few buildings will be meaningless when we have a 15 city empire... the quick start the city provides us, will be all that matters... and pay off in spades.

MrBaggins

	31-01-2003 20:40									#43
	Tired of ads?

From the latest save game I have the hopelite in the city has one movement point (like the settler) it needs two turns to get to the Southern potato tile, it needs four turns to reach the Northern coal tile, so that are only two extra turns. To settle on one of these spots we need one extra turn. So here are the numbers of turns to found a city on these spots:

Potato: 1 + 2 + 1 = 5
Coal: 1 + 4 + 1 = 7

-Martin

	31-01-2003 21:31									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins So you favor getting overrun by the Germans and Austrians, so we *could* have had a 'pretty' empire, had we not been conquered, then? MrBaggins

no we (the APP) want to have peaceful relations to our neighbors so we really can build up a nice nation and later... well perhaps party policies might change somewhen in the future

	31-01-2003 21:44									#45
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

that does, of course, presume a live and let live attitude from our neighbors...

plus our neighbors seem to be encroaching very quickly on where we are able to settle peacefully.

however, we can probably find some nice desert mountains or swamp to settle on though...

	31-01-2003 21:59									#46
	Tired of ads?

there is plenty of fine terrain to the east and south, we can just settle there and build a great nation instead of failing to invade our neighbours and getting crushed by their response

	31-01-2003 22:11									#47
	Put an end to popups!

define plenty...

we've only seen 2 opponents... we have no real knowledge of who is to the south.

to the east, we know is Germany... and the Germans are apparently multiplying like rabits.

MrBaggins

	31-01-2003 22:32									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox there is plenty of fine terrain to the east and south, we can just settle there and build a great nation instead of failing to invade our neighbours and getting crushed by their response

I cannot agree more with the great visionary leader Zaphod Beeblebrox, we should extend our empire peacefully before even considering going to war with the Austrians or the Germans.

	01-02-2003 00:43									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well it looks like most people are in favour of the potatoe site.

	01-02-2003 02:35									#50
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'll put it in a resolution since neither Wise Ass or IW are polling...

	01-02-2003 04:10									#51
	Increase Your PM Length

we need an exact tile people, and one of 2 threads to decide it in...