18-02-2003 01:20									#31
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damn, solver, i missed X-files today.
can you help me ? you look like you could...

	18-02-2003 13:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician damn, solver, i missed X-files today. can you help me ? you look like you could...

Don't be cruel against Solver - it's not his fault that he look that way.

	19-02-2003 07:56									#33
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Oh ya I forgot that part do we or do we not have a thread that describes banned bugs and not banned bugs?

Seems that all these PBEM rules are rather mute if we do not have an official ban or not banned bug, rule list list....

Seems to me that was the whole idea behind banning all bugs unless agree upon before the game. That way we did not need to list them. So how do newbies know what is fair and not fair?

This thread opens a new can of worms, it seems prudent now to include a list of banned bugs vs ok bugs, does it not? Let alone a basic list of fair play and easy honor code rules we us here.

Maybe it can be included in an official thread somewhere that covers the rules. I mean now it is not as easy as saying all bugs are banned is it?

This thread: Info Central - if you're new to this forum, read this first
Would be a good place to add the line:

Game hacks, modifications of the game in any way shape or form through slic commands, game cheats, etc including known or unknown bugs is not allowed in official PBEM games online or otherwise.

Please submit any new bugs and or game cheats, slic commands to the community in the form of a poll for community voting on it's use in official games.

The reason is obvious in Apolyton PBEM we promote honest, fair, equal exchange of game strategy for the best CTP simulating gaming experiences you could ever hope for.

Use of such addons and or modifications could mean instant banning by way of a trip to Solver Hall or worst case senerio participating players ignoring your exsistance, period. Think Klingon here.

BUGS: All bugs are banned except #2 "keep under farm" trick/bug

Just a thought?

Something like this would be good for newbies, would it not?

Last edited by blackice on 19-02-2003 at 08:08

	19-02-2003 08:44									#34
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I think that most people would benefit from a concrete list of things that are "banned."

And again by banned I still think we mean have to be agreed on for or against.

With a full list somebody could just list them out at the start of the game just like, the map settings, and get the yes no nod from the opponent.

For new players this would help them learn the tricks and know what to watch for.

	20-02-2003 04:52									#35
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Exactly checkMate, which is way I voted ban for #2, it has been easy just to say ban all bugs unless players agree to us them before the game starts. Now it would seem we need a list. As this thread has shown everyone has an opinion, thats the idea. But if we just call all bugs bugs and ban all bugs it makes it easy for the newbies.

I mean sure the keep bug is agreed by all to use, so be it. It does not mean it is not a bug and it should then be banned unless agreed before use. Too easy newbie ask's what bugs are ok here, answer: easy none unless it is desclosed and agreed upon before the game starts.

Too easy right?

Making one bug ok and not another just adds to the complication and then makes room for misuse, mistakes and worst case senerio cheating.

Like newbie says " I did not see it on the list so I thought it was ok" Or in this case several people using a bug, which was banned known or unknown... The rule should be and is, er was no bug use period.

Unless of course all are aware of the bug and agree to thier use before the game starts.

	20-02-2003 08:53									#36
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You make a good case Blackice.

	20-02-2003 11:20									#37
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There is only a small hole in Black Ice's position. A newbie may honestly think one of the bugs is not a bug and use it without mentioning it. Although I would have to admit that after a few days of poking around they would run across most issues. But if the bug list hit them in the face early like in the recruitment thread for example, then they would know right from wrong right from the start.

I do agree though that every thing questionable should be a "bug" in this sense that it has to be listed and agreed upon. The list could have the caveat, if you have a practice that you think might be a bug, then you should discuss it with your oponents. Maybe just just have the caveate stated with a few examples. Anyway you see what I mean I guess.

	21-02-2003 05:55									#38
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True Checkmate but the idea is if it is not in the tutorial it is a bug, period. I mean you have to draw a line somewhere why not there?

It is easy every newbie knows that, so does every vet, right?

Same would go for tricks, ramps etc... so a blanket statement would be good, easy and cover a wide range of possibilities. Let's be honest with a clause like that how could someone not know what the rule is?

At the same time if people chose to use cracks, bugs, tricks, ramps whatever as long as all players know what it is and how to use it and most importantly agree to it's use before a game so be it.

	21-02-2003 07:41									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by blackice True Checkmate but the idea is if it is not in the tutorial it is a bug, period. I mean you have to draw a line somewhere why not there? It is easy every newbie knows that, so does every vet, right? Same would go for tricks, ramps etc... so a blanket statement would be good, easy and cover a wide range of possibilities. Let's be honest with a clause like that how could someone not know what the rule is? At the same time if people chose to use cracks, bugs, tricks, ramps whatever as long as all players know what it is and how to use it and most importantly agree to it's use before a game so be it.

Pete

I have a very honest question. But first, I just wanna say I think your opening stement is great, about if its not in tutorial, its a bug period.

ut my concern, or rather question is this:

I learned from you and many more, about MAXING PW out in 1 or 2 turns in a row, particularly in Communism, so as to get a huge amount of infracstructure which will of course help in increasing both Gold and City growth, depending which improvement you chose to go with. I havent seen this in the tutorial.





The second one is another fairly obvious choice, manually placing your workers on goods tiles, which I didnt see in manual either.

The third is this, which is pretty simple, but not so obvious, or at least to me da Big Dummey Grandpa Troll, is how to build a virtual road of farms from a river or ocean area (Body of Water) so you can do improvements to grow your city up strong.

I am only saying that this game, as wonderful and time consuming as it is, has so many dynamic diverse options, it is so easy to overlook what some call cheats or bugs or riush-buy or ramping. I have not used in games what is discussed here. I have not seen many, only a few. I am simply stating that by saying if its not in tutorial, a lot of strategies would not be allowed.


ICS, is that also mentioned in tutorial?

Just asking is all my friend from the Great White North!!

Grandpa Troll

	22-02-2003 07:43									#40
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quote: a lot of strategies would not be allowed

I think this line has really said more than I could. Strategy vs. bugs, world of difference.

So far here we have been open with bugs and strategy, that alone makes the fair bug use and ban all an important part of what we all strive for here.

Fair, even, honest top notch gaming.

	08-03-2003 04:40									#41
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*bump*