31-01-2003 03:03									#1
	Our plans following the war Full PM-box? Change here!

Now that The Great War is coming toward a close, we need to chose a path that well allow Apolytonia to continue to prosper as Modern Times approaches. First and formost, we must do two things. We must build finish building hospitals and factories in all our cities, and reintergrate workers in these cities to make them productive in peace and war. We must build our infantry to defend our cities and all our annexed territory from the evil Romans and Germans.

After that is complete. We have too choices, We can continues our warmongering ways, or aim towards technological advancement while maintaining enough military to swiftly punish any who dare attack us.

As for for myself, I could only support war in the future against England or Greece, due to our Palace and FP location. I do not support any other war initiated by us. If some us else declares on our continent, by all means let them have it. I would still prefer to stay out of overseas conflicts, as invasions are very time and resource consuming to prepare for and can take more time than the residents our our Democracy would like.

	31-01-2003 03:11									#2
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I would hate seeing us initiating another war (or provoking war). We are nearing modern times, and the game is getting extremely tedious. In-game, the war we're waging for more than 6 weeks has been swift !
Our plans to build hospitals and factories weren't delayed THAT much by war - if we count in turns, not in RL time.

My point is : war is now boring. This is a game, and we should avoid to make it dull, otherwise everybody will lose touch, as many of us are beginning to. We should now aim for a great aim, namely the stars, and reach them ASAP.

	31-01-2003 04:00									#3
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Everything is boring in-game once you are "up" a certain amount. As long as the outcome hangs in the balance, everything is exciting.

But once you reach that point, I contend that War is the least boring of the options. You do infact actually have to plan the campaigns. You no longer have to plan them well, but that's another story. Next is Diplomatic because you do have to work the AI relations. Everything else is rush build and end turn.

Now I am not saying building can't be exciting. It is when it matters to the outcome. But every SS victory I have played, there were always scads of turns where I was trying to rush build away several thousand gold per turn of free cash flow. It's far more work than fun.

	31-01-2003 04:15									#4
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That is why I like the suggestion posted in the science advisor thread dedicating ferripolis to the SS build. It will prolong the build, but it will make the MA much more exciting as we "argue" about espionage missions and sabotage as the AI adds SS parts to thier own SSs.

Mss

	31-01-2003 06:19									#5
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A way to make the modern age exciting:

DECLARE WAR ON EVERYONE AND TRY TO WIN VIA CONQUEST.

	31-01-2003 08:07									#6
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Just bee-line for the space-ship already!!!

	31-01-2003 08:47									#7
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We definitely need a building period, but once we get bombers, carriers, marines, etc. I want D-Day invasions of Shaka and Tokugawa.

	31-01-2003 09:12									#8
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A "unbiased" post:

You're right, Arnelos. If we want to end the game as soon as we can, this is the correct strategy.

But I'm very curious about one issue: How should we plan a "D Day"? We have this opportunity, plan a big naval invasion. In a well garrisoned island, with railroads... That invasion will spend many turns, war weariness will no longer be a problem then. The logistics, the strategy, the fleets of carriers, battleships and transports, Marines and all this stuff... (I'm talking about Japan, of course ).
Just for fun. The Senate has the power to decide what we want to do, surely, but this big invasion could be funny.

Philosophically, we can go in other direction. Play a game of kindness for the next turns, soft diplomacy and all, including bribes, and risk the UN elections. A challenge, no doubts.

Or just build the spaceship (as said by Arnelos), and launch the thing. It's a very safe way, I approve that

But that invasion...

Edit: Kloreep, cross-post! I was writing this when you posted...

	31-01-2003 10:03									#9
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Here is my suggestion and what I often do, Beeline as quickly as possible to spacerace victory, however do the upper line after computers. Then while we wait for laser launch our modern armor on somebody. At this point(when we reach it) in the game ww is a non issue as we only have at about 10 turns left in the game so we can go wipe people out if we desire too.
Aggie

	31-01-2003 10:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie Here is my suggestion and what I often do, Beeline as quickly as possible to spacerace victory, however do the upper line after computers. Then while we wait for laser launch our modern armor on somebody. At this point(when we reach it) in the game ww is a non issue as we only have at about 10 turns left in the game so we can go wipe people out if we desire too. Aggie

I typically do the exact same thing.

Bee-line for the spaceship, but build some modern armor and go apesh** on some backward civ to have some fun while I'm waiting for the game to end

errr.... I mean spread our most enlightened society to some poor backward country while reaching for the stars.... to show we still care about the poor saps stuck on this planet. Yeah, that's the ticket...

	31-01-2003 10:44									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos errr.... I mean spread our most enlightened society to some poor backward country while reaching for the stars.... to show we still care about the poor saps stuck on this planet. Yeah, that's the ticket...

We must kill, maim, slaughter any other civ of the face of the earth and make Apolytonia the biggest largest civ in the world

	31-01-2003 11:32									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Bee-line for the spaceship, but build some modern armor and go apesh** on some backward civ to have some fun while I'm waiting for the game to end

The REAL Arnelos shows his face!

	31-01-2003 16:43									#13
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I agree with the statement that wars, and planning campaigns, are the most exciting parts of the game. I suggest that we focus on building, while preparing to conduct the greatest military invasion ever seen!
We need to build the most dreadful force of land units, combined with 4-unit armies of Modern Armor and absolutely terrifying amounts of Radar Artillery units. We need to build the most fearful fleet ever, with AEGIS Cruisers, Aircraft Carriers choked full of Stealth Bombers and Transports loaded with Marines, Modern Armor and Radar Artillery. That would be a force to be proud of.
Let's take on Greece! They're strong, and they'll add very productive cities to our empire, which will make this war even more rewarding. In the mean time, if we want to take our revenge on Tokugawa, we can conduct a naval war using Destroyers and Battleships, thus learning and practicing for the real war.

	31-01-2003 19:17									#14
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Lets declare war on the entire world 5-10 years before we win with the spaceship!

	31-01-2003 20:42									#15
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I keep hearing (ok, reading) that people know we are going to win and want to get this game over with to move to something more challanging. they keep saying that the quickest way to win is by Spaceship. Bull! The quickest way to win is by Diplomacy. I have been reading in the strat forum I saw a thread that explained how to win via Diplomatic victory. Plan on building the UN and sign MPP's with every nation possible, except for the number 2 guy (Japan). Get him to attack us on our soil then call the vote when every blasted nation on the planet is at war with the only other person that could be voted for. But this is longer term.

More immediatly, I would suggest finishing off Xerxes. He is backward technologicly and only has two cities (we could raze them for all I care). He is a sore on our diplomatic butts because he is and always will be furious with us because of the butt whipping we put on him about 1000 years ago. I don't think he would vote for us in a Secratary General vote. Lets go kick his ass!

	31-01-2003 21:08									#16
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quote: That is why I like the suggestion posted in the science advisor thread dedicating ferripolis to the SS build. It will prolong the build, but it will make the MA much more exciting as we "argue" about espionage missions and sabotage as the AI adds SS parts to thier own SSs.

As the author of the OCSSC post, I feel the need to jump in here. OCSSC will not slow down the launch date. That has to be atleast 41 turns into the modern age due to the 4 turn tech limit. I wrote that post partially in jest, partially to show the unbelievers just how important it was to enable Ferropolis, partially to show just how feeble the Civ3 space ship is when compared to the Civ1 and Civ2 versions, and finally to demonstrate the game (fun) destroying nature of the 4 turn tech minimum.

With the current game set-up, any city that can produce 160 shields net of corruption and waste can meet the OCSSC requirement. (Only an Iron Works city can do it.) There are 2 640 shield (4 turn) parts, 4 320 shield (2 turn) parts, 4 160 shield (1 turn) parts, 1 500 shield (4 turn) small wonder for a total of 24 turns of production in the challenge. Still too easy, so we will add the UN, 1000 shield (7 turn) wonder to the challenge. This makes a total of 31 turns. We have to wait 8 turns into the modern age for tech reasons. That's a total of 39 turns identified. There are 10 techs or 40 turns + 1 for that last space ship part and launch.

The OCSSC Tech order is:
Rocketry
Space Flight
---(Apollo and then Engine,Cockpit,Docking))
Ecology
Synthetic Fibers
---(Exterior,Stasis,Storage)
Computers
Fission
---(UN)
Super Conductor
---(Life Support, Fuel Cells)
Sattelites
---(Thrusters)
Nuclear Power
Laser
---(Party Lounge)

The OCSSC 160 net shield build order is relative to Modern Age turns:
01-08 anything you want to finish on turn 08
09-12 Apollo Project Small Wonder
--- Ferropolis may only require 3 turns here more wealth
13-16 Engine
17-18 Cockpit
19-19 Docking
20-23 Exterior
24-25 Stasis
26-26 Storage
27-33 UN Great Wonder
--- Ferropolis may only require 6 turns here more wealth
34-35 Life Support
36-36 Fuel Cells
37-38 Thrusters
39-40 Wealth
41-41 Party Lounge

Please note that there were still 2 wealth turns in the sequence and probably 2 more due to Ferropolis shield count.

And for those too remember, Civ1 and Civ2 required 32 80 shield structures, 16 160 shield components, and 12 320 shield modules for a full 40K landing party launch.

And yes, I have a use for Na'rmer. He rushes the Computers enabled Great Wonder on turn 25. The rest of our nation will need all the Research Labs it can get to keep Ferropolis tech enabled.

And I say to Firaxis: Why oh why did you down scale the space ship so.

	01-02-2003 01:25									#17
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Aro and I have decided that regardless of how this game turns out in the end, we're going to keep the save and invade Japan. The Japanese need to be punished.

Unless I can get support for this in the Senate, it will have to be played after the game is over...

	01-02-2003 01:41									#18
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Wow! roadcage, this is amazing!

	01-02-2003 02:40									#19
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quote: Aro and I have decided that regardless of how this game turns out in the end, we're going to keep the save and invade Japan. The Japanese need to be punished.

Yes, we must climb that mountain. We climb not only because it is there, but because it is in Japan!

Reporting for duty.
Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	01-02-2003 02:51									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Aro and I have decided that regardless of how this game turns out in the end, we're going to keep the save and invade Japan. The Japanese need to be punished. Unless I can get support for this in the Senate, it will have to be played after the game is over...

I support it!!

	01-02-2003 03:45									#21
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quote: More immediatly, I would suggest finishing off Xerxes. He is backward technologicly and only has two cities (we could raze them for all I care). He is a sore on our diplomatic butts because he is and always will be furious with us because of the butt whipping we put on him about 1000 years ago. I don't think he would vote for us in a Secratary General vote. Lets go kick his ass!

I have said similar things in the past. Except that those two cities should be saved as staging points for the coming Ivory War.

Greece, Aztec, and England have Ivory that is in range. Greek Ivory can be staged from the (soon to be) former Persian lands. Aztec Ivory can be staged from Heidelberg and the afore mentioned Persian holdings. English Ivory can be staged from the (soon to be) former German city of Nuremburg.

Only one of these campaigns need be fought. We simply need to be prepared for which ever Ivory holdings the Senate determines is in our future.

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	01-02-2003 04:02									#22
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The following civs would never vote for us in a Sec General vote:

1. Germany
2. Persia
3. Japan
4. Zulu
5. Rome

In addition, the Aztecs and China are both in the highly unlikely that they would vote for us category.

This only leaves Greece, England, Irq., Russia, and India as countries that may vote for us if they themselves aren't eligible.

	01-02-2003 04:07									#23
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From the border persecptive, annexing England is the only country that would decrease the size of our border.

From the geo-political perspective, the most likely countries to be eligbile for Sec General by the time it's buiilt are Japan and Greece followed by an outside shot for the Irq and Russia if one of them annexes most of Rome / Babylon.

	01-02-2003 16:18									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Aro and I have decided that regardless of how this game turns out in the end, we're going to keep the save and invade Japan. The Japanese need to be punished. Unless I can get support for this in the Senate, it will have to be played after the game is over...

hi ,

with a bit of planning we can start to get back at them and teach that species a lesson or two before the end , ....

"lets go bonk some heads"

Roadcage , great info

have a nice day

	02-02-2003 23:24									#25
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal I don't think he would vote for us in a Secratary General vote. Lets go kick his ass!

Not a bad strategy, maybe we should do this in real life?

If France won't vote to support global civilization on the UN security council we should just go over there and kick their .......

	03-02-2003 00:28									#26
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With Persia entering a war with Greece, most of what I said about the Ivory War is moot since Persia cannot survive. This leaves England as the only practical source. Need to develop suitable 'LIZard' removal strategy. Must include capture of that little island for Japanese staging.

	03-02-2003 01:20									#27
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Not a bad strategy, maybe we should do this in real life? If France won't vote to support global civilization on the UN security council we should just go over there and kick their .......

What a waste of time that would be

Don't worry... France will sell out, they always do. As my father has told me before... "It always worries us when France is on our side because they always sell us out. But when France is opposed to us, we don't worry much at all, because they can always be bought."

Gee... I wonder how the FIRST resolution passed...

It's telling to note that the German newspapers were already worrying about France selling out Germany the SAME DAY that France and Germany supposedly "agreed" to stand united against war with Iraq...

	03-02-2003 01:25									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos What a waste of time that would be

But it would be fun.

Maybe the US and France could have a Hundred Minutes War.