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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by TacticalGrace
Amesjustin:
My point is that the Americans are in fact the English.
The real Americans in civ3 are the Iroquois, and should have been named as such. This is the source of the identity crisis for the native american civs. First they were the Sioux then they were Iroquis. They should have been American all along. |
hi ,
americans are a mix of backgrounds , english , dutch , spanish , french , irish , germans , etc , ......
and not to forget the natice american's , ....
have a nice day
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Amesjustin
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of nothing
Feb 2002
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by TacticalGrace
Amesjustin:
My point is that the Americans are in fact the English.
The real Americans in civ3 are the Iroquois, and should have been named as such. This is the source of the identity crisis for the native american civs. First they were the Sioux then they were Iroquis. They should have been American all along. |
While we may still speak english, I think it is safe to say we are no longer English. This country is full of people who are of spanish, asian, middle eastern, and african descent. I live in Southern California, where people of any Anglo-Saxon descent make up about 42% of the population. One of the things that makes our culture so unique in the world is the melting pot of different cultures that exist here. I can get food from any nation within an hour here.
As far as your different languages go - I think there are more countries out there that do NOT have their own language than do. Does Brazil not have a seperate culture from Portugal?
Being partially Native American myself, I think I might know a bit more about the topic than you. Native americans are actually descendants from asia, crossing over to Alaska on an ice bridge during the last Ice Age, and migrating south. Does that mean the Cherokee are asian? In fact many studies say that human life started in Africa or the Middle East - do you consider yourself to be African or Middle Eastern?
The fact is, we all came from the same source, whether you believe in Evolution or Creationism, and so large as a species that the fragmentation into different nations was eventually inevitable. Each nation has developed their own culture, even the USA. In fact, the USA has a rather distinctive culture if you ask me. You might not like the culture (there are some aspects I don't like), but it IS a culture that is very different from the English.
Americans are not English, the English are not Norman/Saxon, nor were the Norman/Saxons African. Yes we are all people, but what fun is that in a game like this? We are all our own people within the nation we live in.
And as far as the term 'Americans' go - I agree that the term 'America' applies to native americans AND all the peoples living in North and South America. But the point of Civ3 is to have different nations play against each other. We refer to each other as Americans only because United Statians sounds lame.
The Native Americans had a culture here, but were wiped out by the Colonists. In Civ3 terms, think of it this way - England starts colonizing a land where the lesser-developed Native Americans lived. After a short-lived peace treaty, war breaks out, and almost all of the Native American cities are destroyed, the few that remain eventually 'flip' over to the other side. The Colonists eventually revolt and form their own nation (Something which Civ 3 really should have incorporated).
At any rate, this is just a game, enjoy it, remove the US if you like! Just please stop using a game that is supposed to provide fun as your anti-american vehicle.
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Amesjustin
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of nothing
Feb 2002
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by XarXo
America is a civ, just because they created an own life visions. A very selfish and monetarized, yes, but a different one.
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Keep in mind this is not how the vast majority of America is. This is the image portrayed by Hollywood and other media, both foreign and domestic. Most Americans are just as appalled by greed and autocentrism as you are.
Last edited by Amesjustin on 18-02-2003 at 02:23
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TacticalGrace
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Invisible, Silent, Deadly.
Jan 2001
time: 05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Amesjustin
While we may still speak english, I think it is safe to say we are no longer English. This country is full of people who are of spanish, asian, middle eastern, and african descent. I live in Southern California, where people of any Anglo-Saxon descent make up about 42% of the population. One of the things that makes our culture so unique in the world is the melting pot of different cultures that exist here. I can get food from any nation within an hour here.
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(1) It's not very unique.
(2) Sounds a lot like London really but I'd still call that an English city, especially in civ terms.
(3) When there is someone other than a middle-aged english speaking white man in the White House, then I'll believe that the USA has truly embraced cultural diversity.
quote:
As far as your different languages go - I think there are more countries out there that do NOT have their own language than do. Does Brazil not have a seperate culture from Portugal?
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I never said that America doesn't have a separate culture from Britain. I was only saying that in civ terms the modern america is most correctly modelled as being born from the english civ for the general game. I'm not talking about scenarios here : the american civ is excellent and essential for scenario construction.
Also I think that the native americans are the original americans (obviously!) History might pan out differently and modern america might turn out to be a successful native american civ. Or it might get conquored by the french this time...
quote:
Being partially Native American myself, I think I might know a bit more about the topic than you. Native americans are actually descendants from asia, crossing over to Alaska on an ice bridge during the last Ice Age, and migrating south. Does that mean the Cherokee are asian? In fact many studies say that human life started in Africa or the Middle East - do you consider yourself to be African or Middle Eastern?
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All of that is very nice but in the idiom of civilization it is consistant and most neatly modelled by making the native americans the civilization that starts off being called america. For playing on world map they should be the only civ starting in north america.
quote:
The fact is, we all came from the same source, whether you believe in Evolution or Creationism, and so large as a species that the fragmentation into different nations was eventually inevitable. Each nation has developed their own culture, even the USA. In fact, the USA has a rather distinctive culture if you ask me. You might not like the culture (there are some aspects I don't like), but it IS a culture that is very different from the English.
Americans are not English, the English are not Norman/Saxon, nor were the Norman/Saxons African. Yes we are all people, but what fun is that in a game like this? We are all our own people within the nation we live in.
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well obviously everything is abstracted in civ. I'm suggesting that the least silly abstraction is an american civ - the native americans - and a bunch of european civs like the english and the french.
quote:
The Native Americans had a culture here, but were wiped out by the Colonists. In Civ3 terms, think of it this way - England starts colonizing a land where the lesser-developed Native Americans lived. After a short-lived peace treaty, war breaks out, and almost all of the Native American cities are destroyed, the few that remain eventually 'flip' over to the other side. The Colonists eventually revolt and form their own nation (Something which Civ 3 really should have incorporated).
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correct. But it doesn't so the remaining mechanism is to make an american civ which starts with tribal native american city names.
quote:
At any rate, this is just a game, enjoy it, remove the US if you like! Just please stop using a game that is supposed to provide fun as your anti-american vehicle. |
hey I'm not being anti-american. I'm just saying that the american civ should be modelled in a different way. I'm not saying that people shouldn't play civ the way they want. That goes without saying. I'm just pointing out the upside down nature of having an american civ that starts off building cities like washington and new york when the Englishness of these names is so apparant. If anything making the american civ based on its deeper heritage decouples america from europe and correctly makes it a separate independant culture.
Last edited by TacticalGrace on 18-02-2003 at 15:53
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11-02-2003 11:55
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