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History Guy
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Reads too many books...
Oct 2001
time: 23:25
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I have been called as a witness for the prosecution, but I cannot say why.
As it is, I said I thought I saw Ninot try to escape town. I have since discovered that it was not the said Senor Ninot himself, but a man who looks quite like him, by the name of Noberto Rinot, who is now hanging from the gibbet for stealing from Senor Ninot, myself, and a one eyed peasant women with no legs, and only two bones to spare. For that, we executed him. It had nothing more to do with the accused.
Furthermore, I myself heard no statements by the accused that he was planning any revolt. In past, I had argument with him, and I sincerely believed his father to be abusing his priveleges as Mayor of Spain, but I have no argument with the accused. I have no evidence to show, and so I ask to be allowed to stand down, unless the prosecutor has questions for me that have relevance to the case.
Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
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Ninot
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Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by History Guy
I have been called as a witness for the prosecution, but I cannot say why.
As it is, I said I thought I saw Ninot try to escape town. I have since discovered that it was not the said Senor Ninot himself, but a man who looks quite like him, by the name of Noberto Rinot, who is now hanging from the gibbet for stealing from Senor Ninot, myself, and a one eyed peasant women with no legs, and only two bones to spare. For that, we executed him. It had nothing more to do with the accused.
Furthermore, I myself heard no statements by the accused that he was planning any revolt. In past, I had argument with him, and I sincerely believed his father to be abusing his priveleges as Mayor of Spain, but I have no argument with the accused. I have no evidence to show, and so I ask to be allowed to stand down, unless the prosecutor has questions for me that have relevance to the case.
Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger |
Hernan, despite our families differences, I thank you greatly for testifying so truthfully and so forwardly.
I am sure your key testimony will lead to this trial ending faster.
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:25
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The Story of Señor Diego Clemente and the Trial of Señor Ninot,
Señor Diego Clemente, having been asked by both the prosecution and the defense to testify as their witness, was in quite the quandry. Knowing that he had a duty as an upstanding citizen of the community to answer the call to testify on behalf of the prosecution, yet knowing that bonds of honor between his house and that of House Ninot obligated him to speak on behalf of Señor Ninot's character, he knew not how to act.... until an idea struck him... literally. Well, actually, that was something else, but this is another matter that members of the Clemente Clan do not often speak about... anyhow, this is when an idea occured to him...
Diego, not really stopping to think if this was a good idea or not, decided to carry through with his resolution to his conflict of interest as follows....
*Señor Diego Clemente comes to the stand on behalf of the prosecution
I have information to bring to you all which would suggest Señor Ninot's guilt of the crime accused. I do so with heavy heart, for I know Señor Ninot to be a good man. But being a good man does not shield him from the evidence which might be proof of his guilt.
As many of you are aware, there was a negotiating session held some time ago with visiting representatives of the Glory of War, that disgracefully barbaric tribe to our north. During the negotiations, various nobles of Spain were discussing the negotiations and other matters of state in a seperate room while our ambassador, the esteemed Señor Mada, was attempting to conduct the actual negotions with Glory of War without too much interuption from the occassional visits from the rest of us.
The conduct of Señor Ninot in question arose when there was much talk both in the negotiations and among the nobles of Spain concerning that Lux Invicta had lied to Glory of War and us about technology, contact with other civilizations, their aggressiveness, and other such issues. It was mentioned by several nobles that perhaps Glory of War wasn't as bad as they had seemed and perhaps Togas, His Grace and most wise, had over-reacted in earlier dealings with that tribe.
This is when it was additionally suggested that perhaps His Grace, Togas our Supreme Leader, had allowed his judgement to be clouded by his annoyance at Glory of War over the deals concerning Horseback Riding and their "invasion" of our territory. I honestly do not recall whether Señor Ninot or another made these comments, you would have consult with the record of the discussion (if one is available) to discern this, as I do not possess such a record. What I do remember, however, is that Señor Ninot took the opportunity to mention to then bring up the subject of the method of selecting new leadership for Spain, as had once been discussed by our less civilizied ancestors long ago. That, as is the tradition of our people, any new leader would have to gather support among the nobles of the tribe to directly challenge the leadership of the reigning ruler.
To his credit, Señor Ninot was extremely careful to speak only of such things in third-person or followed by the words "hypothetically, of course". However, the fact that Señor Ninot even opened the topic for discussion among the nobles of Spain and that many of us were there to witness this event and many indeed took part in the discussion does not bode well for Señor Ninot's defense against these charges. Even if his intent was other than it seems, it is behavior that certainly bears the appearance of being treasonous against His Grace, Lord Togas. Understandably, Señor Ninot has a responsibility to explain his actions in this regard.
I recall that Señor Dejon, in particular, argued forcefullly in defense of Lord Togas, but the status of others I do not recall as being forceful in either direction, though this may simply be a product of my inability to remember such less important specifics, I will admit. Once again, record of these events still exists, it might be invaluable for discerning this matter. I regret to inform you all that I lack such a record.
A centerpiece of this discussion, it seemed, was that some among the nobles had come to doubt Lord Togas' level-headedness in his dealings with the Glory of War and Lux Invicta tribes. It was stated that perhaps Lord Togas' anger at Glory of War had been allowed to cloud his judgement in seeking an alliance with the clearly heinous Lux Invicta while stonewalling the clearly more honorable Glory of War. Once again, I observed that Señor Dejon was the most forceful in combating these arguments, others were either unmoved either way or wisely chose (as I did) to forgo such dangerous discussion.
Later, when the record of our negotiations with Glory of War was brought to Lord Togas, he became incensed at what he perceived to be the gullability of some of our nobles in regards to claims of Glory of War, which Lord Togas saw as being clearly dishonest. That some nobles had commented to Glory of War that they were mad at Lux Invicta for LI's treachery sparked Lord Togas to comment that it was ok if they were merely acting, but if there was any hint of seriousness, these nobles needed to procure for themselves better "bullshit detectors".
It should be noted that, in response to this statement by our Lord Togas, the accused then stated (and here is the public record of those statements):
quote:
Originally posted by Ninot
myyyy mistake
what about my "idea" tho?
i was going on the presumption Trip WASNT researching Mysticism. but nothing lost really. if GoW still cant be trusted, then GoW still cant be trusted
im behind ya Togas  |
Ninot, it appears was one of the nobles which Togas may have been upset with for not having an adequate "bullshit detector", whatever that happens to be (we are not privy to all of the wisdom available to our Lord Togas, apparently). Señor Ninot's last statement of "im behind ya Togas " is of particular interest to the charges laid against him here, because he had just the night before been discussing the matter of the despot's potential overthrow with other nobles of Spain. I leave it to the office of the Watcher to interpret these comments as he will.
Given this evidence against Señor Ninot, it would seem that he is indeed guilty of both charges, that of treason against Lord Togas for beginning seditious discussions about the overthrow of our ruler, and treason against Spain for (in the words of Lord Togas) possessing an inadequate "bullshit detector" which lead him to see Togas' actions with regard to Glory of War as being ill-advised and being the potential root cause of his consideration for treason against Togas.
I leave it to the esteemed office of the Watcher to handle this evidence and consider it as it will.
*Señor Diego Clemente sits down after completing his testimony for the prosecution.
*Señor Diego Clemente comes to the stand on behalf of the defense
The testimony just given on behalf of the prosecution would seem to leave little doubt in the matter of Ninot's guilt for the crime of which he is accused. It has been laid out that Señor Ninot began a discussion regarding the potential overthrow of Lord Togas, a clearly seditious and treasonous action, and that the root cause of his purpose in starting this discussion was a disagreement on the foreign policy of the tribe in regards to the heinous Glory of War tribe.
What I am here to tell you is that as much as it may appear that Señor Ninot is guilty of these crimes, he is in fact innocent. At most, he has merely committed an error of judgement, something which hardly qualifies him as guilty of the high crime of treason! But, in truth, it would seem that Ninot sought to do a service for both Spain and particularly Lord Togas, actions which deserve him of our honor rather than our scorn!
To begin with, Señor Ninot clearly is a noble and loyal citizen of Spain. As with many others who have come to his defense, I will defend him on this count. There is no doubt that whatever Señor Ninot might have done, he was doing it with the best interests of Spain in mind. Where the charge that he might not have been acting in the best interests of Lord Togas can be seen as possible for a man of Ninot's character, actions intended for the harm of Spain are entirely unthinkable. The charge that he acted in treason against all of Spain is clearly rubbish and should be dismissed!
Furthermore, even if it were true that Señor Ninot had indeed brought up the possibility of Lord Togas' overthrow due to concerns about Lord Togas' foreign policy, it seems from the evidence that he quickly realized the error he had made and indeed that the root cause was clearly an error of judgement rather than a willful intent. Señor Ninot can then, at most, be accused of being a fool for having an insufficient "bullshit detector" rather than a heinous villain intent upon treachery and treason. The reality is that he is neither, but for the sake of argument, it is clear that the possibility of him being a fool is far greater than the possibility of him being a committed traitor.
But the true reason why Ninot is not guilty of these crimes has little to do with the foreign policy of our great tribe and everything to do with the opportunity which this disagreement on foreign policy among the nobles might give to one who DID possess traitorous thoughts against Lord Togas. The question then is whether Señor Ninot was just such an individual or whether he was an individual of another type.
It is my testimony here that Señor Ninot was not such an individual. Rather, it is entirely possible that Señor Ninot was in fact acting on behalf of Lord Togas by attempting to ferret out any heinous and treasonous individuals who WERE of the type which Señor Ninot is accused of being. This possibility leaves great reason to doubt Ninot's own culpability and instead cast it upon any that he managed to show were treasonous by giving them the opportunity to voice their treasonous thoughts while believing they were in an environment safe for the airing of such thoughts.
As for Señor Ninot, his wit and wisdom would seem enough that he is incapable of making the incredibly foolish decision to begin such a potentially treasonous discussion if he actually intended to overthrow our Lord Togas. Señor Ninot is a wise man whatever else he may be and clearly he would have known that to begin such a discussion would inevitably raise the interest of the Office of the Watcher and that of Lord Togas himself. Clearly he knew that records of such discussions would reach back to the ear of Lord Togas.
Therefore, I assert that clearly Señor Ninot fully intended for this discussion to come back to Lord Togas! The reason he would have so intended is clear. He began the subject of discussion in order to discern which nobles of Spain, if any, might be foolish enough to take the bait. My memory leads me to believe that there may have been some who did so, but I honestly do not recall which. In doing this, Ninot provided what is potentially an enormous public service and a great service to Lord Togas in particular!
To prove his innocence, therefore, all Señor Ninot need do is to name the names of those nobles of Spain which he successfully lured into speaking of such conspiracies and their possible support of them! Clearly, if that was Señor Ninot's honorous intent as a commited citizen of Spain and subject of Lord Togas, he would have no problem with doing so! Then Lord Togas and the Office of the Watcher under Señor Torquemada can begin to look into the matter of appropriate admonishment for those foolish nobles who spoke out against Lord Togas.
In the future, the nobles of Spain will then remember to be careful to stay away from seditious discussion and Señor Ninot will be remembered for his great service to Lord Togas in providing this lesson to the potentially treasonous.
If Señor Ninot is innocent, as his character would seem to indicate that he is, he would obviously have no trouble in doing just such a thing. And if his intent was indeed to ferret out potential traitors, clearly he would remember their names more clearly than I, who endeavored to mostly stay away from such seditious discussion.
Let Señor Ninot speak on this matter then!
*Señor Diego Clemente sits down after completing his testimony for the defense.
[ooc] [/ooc]
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Ninot
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Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:25
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This response is pertaining to Arnelos' testimony.
First off, I'd like to congratulate Diego on being able to testify truthfully for both sides of the trial.
What he says, is true, atleast for the defense.
GoW was getting sweet with us, trying to get techs and great deals. MANY present at the time were openly discussing their opinion that they thought Togas was wrong on the issue of GoW, and some suggested we would get in trouble for it.
I did raise the question of "What error would Togas need to make for the masses to turn against him?". I raised this question to see who had a propper idea of when they might committ treachery. To my relief, no one present really had an idea of when they would turn against Togas.
If the prosecutor would like names as to who had betrayful thoughts on Togas, I might be able to remember them once my innocense is recognized.
But as for myself, I never pondered the idea of treachery. Many times, before, during, and after the chat, I supported Togas' views of both GF and GoW, and I never once suggested Togas be overthrown. But with treacherous thought in the room, it piqued my curiosity to know who MIGHT be pondering it.
As for my bullshit meter... i would have had it ON, if i wasnt misinformed. I was told, by those present, a mis-truth. As i had a personal chat going with GF (as many had that night).. i would have known he was bullshitting if i didnt already have a wrong-fact from the RP room.
I still proclaim my innocense. Others in the room may have questioned Togas, but they did not comitt treason either.
No one is guilty of this crime as of yet, in my opinion. But perticularly, i am innocent.
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DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:25
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FINAL ACCUSATION
We have been badly impressed by the witnesses who limited their declarations to a violent denial of the legitimacy of the Court; it is common practice among the terrorists, conspirators and other traitors to refuse a convincing demonstrating of their innocence, and prefer attacking the institutions; and doing so they just make easier to classify the accused as a culprit.
But those who have attempted to really defend the accused have met an extremely difficult task: either they comfort the common idea that Ninot is a clever and sensible person, and it is then difficult to believe that he acts with flightiness without thinking that his words can be misinterpreted, or he is a very simple man, almost idiot, unable to anticipate the negatives consequences of what he says. In both cases, this man is dangerous : if he had planned deliberately the conspiracy or if he had inadvertently induced other people to undertake it.
An astute witness, recognizing the weakness of this reasoning, tried to reconcile both ideas. Ninot would have made, on his own initiative, and without prior informing the Despot or the Watcher, a provocation aiming to bring candidates conspirators to declare themselves. Interesting but unbelievable; nobody can accept that a noble carrying so tortuous and Machiavellian ideas would be naïve enough not to put this project under the protection of the highest authority. Which is still more interesting for the case is that Ninot accepted in his final defence this thesis, therefore recognizing that he has said what he is accused of having said. He even went further, declaring that he will tell the name of those nobles who fell into the trap, if he was declared innocent.
We need not to insult the justice to get those names: we knew them before him.
Therefore we conclude that the accused Ninot has committed the crime of treason of the Despot and of hight treason of Spain, and we respectfully request the Court to condemn Ninot to the most ignominious death only deserved by the traitors.
Christofo de Torquemada
Last edited by DAVOUT on 11-02-2003 at 22:47
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GeneralTacticus
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of Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2001
time: 15:25
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Having reviewed at length the events in this courtroom, including the evidence provided by the accuser, and studied the sacred texts to see if they can shed any light in this, I believe I have come to a conclusion.
Firstly, the use of a number of different and powerful spells to detect lying have all turned up the same result: Ninot and his defenders all genuinely believe in what they are saying. Thus, in order for Ninot to have committed the acts of which he has been accused, he must not ahve been aware of them at the time, or else is merely unaware of them now. This would be patently impossible without the use magic.
Secondly, it appears that the most crucial piece of evidence we may is the so-called 'TV clicker'. This device is mentioned in one of ancient texts eprtaining to the Visigoth wars, but was beleived destroyed along with the other blasphemous shrines and artefacts of the Visigoths.
In any case, the letters 'TV' in it's name stand for words in the spirit tongue (which I will not utter here for the sake of the sanities of those unprotected) meaning 'Lord of Anarchy', one of the major demons worshipped by the Visigoths. The 'TV clicker' was a device used by them to communicate with him. Although the device was destroyed, TV maintained his ability to subtly influence the minds of mortals, and it seems he has been using it recently to try to bring about the downfall of Spain and the return of the Visigoths or someone else who willw orship him and give him power. The 'TV clicker' that Nniot mentioned is a reproduction of of the original, with the added feature that those who sue it do not knwo they are doing so unless they actually know what it is. I can scarcely imagine the effort it would have taken TV to make an unwitting mortal create the device, but he has done it.
Now, according to the best interpretation I can give of the texts I have read, the priests of the time of the Visigoths knew all about TV, and thus were determined to destroy him upon the defeat of the Visigoths. When they razed his shriens, however, they realized that they had not destroyed him but merely forced him into hiding. Beleiving that he was, however, impotent, they thougth little more on the matter, save to record their knowledge in case it ever became useful - which it now has.
So, my verdict is this:
1) Ninot himself did not have any desire or intention of assassinating Togas, hence he has been entirely truthful here.
2) The 'TV clicker' is a device he uses for it's stated purpose; this was necessary for him to actually do anything with it. However, as long as he uses it in any way, TV can sue ti to influence him, and cause him to do things without actually willing them, but beleiving that he did, and rationalizing them. Hence his repeated and sincere protestations of his innocence.
3) There is, in fact, a plot to overthrow Togas in existence, but Ninot is not actually part of it. He is being used as a pawn by TV, whose basic aim is to create as much chaos and terror as possible in Spain, in order to weaken us. To this end, he has been making ninot implicate himself in the plot so as to ensure his death, and create dissent among those who oppose his fate, thus making it easier for him to eliminate Togas.
4) All TV clickers should be immediately confiscated and publicly burned, and their manufacture banned. Another device should be created to fulfill the same fuction without allowing TV to extend his influence.
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DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:25
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VERDICT
The Court finds that Ninot is physically guilty as it has been clearly established by the Accuser, but he is morally innocent as demonstrated by the High Priest.
All elements of uncertainty which resulted from the sometimes strange behaviour of Ninot are now explained. When he produced some unexpected sounds such as, during the infamous chat on January 28 : [19:31] [Ninotsback> yi yiiii], or when he sang, in the middle of a discussion : " lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala", he is under the evil influence of TV.
And when he says, to a friend recalling that the chat was likely the origin of the warrant: i certainly hope no one saw that, he realized that he has lost control of his mind and of his acts.
The most difficult task of the Court is to decide the appropriate condemnation for the part of Ninot which is physically guilty, without committing an injustice towards the part of him which is morally innocent; and also, the death, although quite obvious, being a too easy end for such a physical criminal, there is a need for a long lasting punishment with exemplary value.
By chance, in his first declaration, Ninot inserted four striking sentences:
Togas proved to all that a class system can work!
... short of betraying Togas and Spain.
A generous despotic leadership under the merciful Togas!
Togas is a generous leader whom no one should distrust.
Whatever were the motives which inspired him, these four sentences encompass almost all the political greatness of the Despot Togas.
Therefore, the Court condemn Ninot to write four short stories at the glory of Togas, each ending with one of the four sentences, and to sign them. These stories will be told publicly once a week to the people on the central plaza in all cities of Spain, until they are known by heart, and then the people will tell them to their children. The author will be universally known as the greatest admirer of Togas. The criminal part of Ninot will have to suffer until the end of his life to be responsible for the building of Togas legend.
The Court also indemnify the innocent part of Ninot for all worries and fears resulting from the present case by authorizing him to participate with the best of his talent, cleverness and humour, to the building of Togas legend. The innocent part of Ninot will enjoy until the end of his life the pleasure to build the Togas legend.
Justice is so rendered, in Madrid, on February 12, Togas ruling
By the Unique Judge
Christofo de Torquemada
Last edited by DAVOUT on 12-02-2003 at 22:29
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mrmitchell
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I applaud the High Priest, Watcher, and Court for not resorting to violence to solve Spain's problems but helping reinstill the Great Togas's Glory in the citizenry.
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08-02-2003 17:01
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