31-01-2003 20:17									#1
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There seems to be a worrying amount of antagonism directed between different minorities in the United Kingdom, especially the afro-carribean population towards the homosexual populace.

There seem to be a rising number of attacks directed at gay citizens (or those percieved to be gay), both physically and verbally, from both black people on the street and in the black music industry.

Though this is definently not the case for the majority of afro-carribeans, why is black culture and music becoming more homophobic. Homosexual protestors outside the black music (edit: mobo) awards, angry at lyrics expressed by artists such as DJ Beenie Man were beaten by afro-carribean men.

It's a shame that two opressed minorities cannot share a cammon cause (the are a number of black homosexuals who have a lot of difficulty). Jamaican homosexuals often seek aslyum in the UK because there is such hatred towards sexual minorities homosexuals are regularly stoned and beaten to death, with the government doing nothing to help.

There are black artists who have expressed concern at those calling for the execution of gay men (Ms Dynamite being one I believe), but is there something about black (or most notably, Jamaican) culture that is inherently homophobic? It doesn't seem right that these artists are free to call for the slaughter of homosexuals, yet were you to say the same thing about racial minorites you'd be in a lot of trouble (please note that I do not condone racial hatred).

What do you think?

	31-01-2003 20:29									#2
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There all closet pillow bitters and are scared to admit it ao they go the other way

	31-01-2003 20:47									#3
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I guess I can also ask why there are gays and lesbians who have no respect for bisexuals.

I'm gay and I respect bisexuals.

	31-01-2003 21:20									#4
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That's true as well - I've met many biphobic people, gay and straight, which doesn't make sense. The guy I had a date with earliuer this week was quite biphobic.

I've never understood it.

	31-01-2003 21:24									#5
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I think I understand part of it.

Gays and lesbians knock bisexuals by claiming that bisexuals just cannot make up their minds, and that bisexuality is a temporary "phase."

All that, in my opinion, is bullocks.

	31-01-2003 23:44									#6
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I don't like lesbians! I'm weird!

	01-02-2003 00:00									#7
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Most of the inter racial conflict in San Antonio is between African Americans and Hispannics.

	01-02-2003 01:04									#8
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So whites, just lay back, relax, and enjoy the show?

Some cultures just don't lose the close-minded attitude.
Just like the ultraorthodox jews, and the muslims.

	01-02-2003 01:35									#9
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Weak social groups antagonising each other is one of the main reasons why I think Socialism's linear idea of conflict is bollocks. More power to the working class might be directly bad for women or homosexuals, it's not all interlinked.

Oh, and I'm bisexual and listen to loads of Dancehall music about killing homosexuals. Does this make me a bad person?

	01-02-2003 02:43									#10
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Hey Snapcase, answer my PM!

	02-02-2003 01:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I think I understand part of it. Gays and lesbians knock bisexuals by claiming that bisexuals just cannot make up their minds, and that bisexuality is a temporary "phase." All that, in my opinion, is bullocks.

I agree, but if I recall correctly you said you wouldn't want to date a bisexual person a long time ago...

	02-02-2003 01:56									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel So whites, just lay back, relax, and enjoy the show? Some cultures just don't lose the close-minded attitude. Just like the ultraorthodox jews, and the muslims.

Wait, so Jews have to be ultra-orthodox to be close minded and muslims in general are close minded? Perhaps you mean "unorthodox jews and muslims" not "unorthodox jews, and the muslims"? Actually I suck at grammar so dont listen to me.

Unless you meant the way I understood it

	02-02-2003 02:05									#13
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Jews can be atheists. muslims cannot, by definition.

	02-02-2003 02:21									#14
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Macho cultures tend to be extremely anti-homosexual. It challenges traditional male role and authority.

Minority groups are also part of the culture which discriminates against them, and they pick up the prejudices of the popular culture. In the US, Blacks and Hispanics are fighting to be 2nd dog. As Islam spreads in the Black community, anti-Semitism has increased (which is sad considering that the Jewish community supported civil rights the strongest out of the entire white community). Everybody hates homosexuals, and homosexual have some extremely disturbing prejudices as well. I've probably heard more ignorant racist crap from gay men . . .

	02-02-2003 02:22									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Jews can be atheists. muslims cannot, by definition.

Have you never heard of "secular Islam?"

	02-02-2003 02:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Macho cultures tend to be extremely anti-homosexual. It challenges traditional male role and authority.

Right, I have usually noticed African-Americans tend to have a more macho attitude then most, though there are certainly some African Americans who aren't like that.

"Oh, and I'm bisexual and listen to loads of Dancehall music about killing homosexuals. Does this make me a bad person?"

If you like music that advocates killing homosexuals then you have questionable tastes in music.

	02-02-2003 02:42									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Right, I have usually noticed African-Americans tend to have a more macho attitude then most, though there are certainly some African Americans who aren't like that.

This is a result of the demasculinization of Black men by whites during Slavery, Jim Crow, and economic prejudice. Aside from litterally being castrated by white mobs, some Black men feel castrated by not being able to effectively take care of their family (real or potential), and thus must act more manly to counter this. On top of this is the fact that Black women tend to get more and better jobs than Black men, which further demasculinizes them in their own minds. (See children, how sexism f*cks you up even if you're a man!)

Black homosexuals threaten this sense of Black manhood. I haven't seen any single cultural group in the US as uniformly anti-gay as Blacks, although the US South comes close. Black gays have a very hard time because not only do they have to deal with heterosexism from other Blacks, they have to deal with racism from other gays. Now here's the weird thing, most Black gays continue to live in the Black community rather than go live in the various "gay ghettos."

And with all such statements like this, particulars vary and this is only a broad generalization.

	02-02-2003 02:50									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I agree, but if I recall correctly you said you wouldn't want to date a bisexual person a long time ago...

Yeah, until I realized that I was in error.

You and a couple of other guys pointed out a legitimate difference between a white person choosing not to date blacks and a gay guy choosing not to date bisexuals.

I can't remember what the exact reasoning was, but after you pointed out how the white person would not be prejudiced towards blacks, but a gay person would still be prejudiced towards bisexuals, I changed my mind.

What I just typed -- did that make any sense?

	02-02-2003 02:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun What I just typed -- did that make any sense?

Yes, and congratulations on overcoming one of your prejudices.

	02-02-2003 02:57									#20
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Chegitz -- surprised I'm getting a thumb's up from someone who is mistakenly accusing me of "scoring political points" from a human tragedy.

	02-02-2003 02:57									#21
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Since we're on this subject, I recently heard from someone that there's a growing trend in America of african-american homosexuality and a bloom of AIDS transmission between them.

Of course this is all word of mouth, and I have no links or concrete evidence about this; which is why I am commenting on it here at OT.

	02-02-2003 02:59									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Chegitz -- surprised I'm getting a thumb's up from someone who is mistakenly accusing me of "scoring political points" from a human tragedy.

Just because you're an ass elsewhere doesn't mean you shouldn't be congratulated for human growth.

	02-02-2003 03:02									#23
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Just because you're an ass elsewhere doesn't mean you shouldn't be congratulated for human growth.

Now Chegitz -- usually when people insult other people, that person doing the insulting is reflecting how he really feels about himself.

	02-02-2003 03:16									#24
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quote: Jews can be atheists. muslims cannot, by definition.

-Azazel

Che, what Azazel meant was thata Jewish identity can be cultural or religious, where having a family member who is a Jew can make you a Jew as would converting to Judiasm.

Muslims are different, in that one cannot be a Muslim just because one's parents were Muslims as well.

Could you clarify what you mean by a secular Muslim? Perhaps an example of one?

	02-02-2003 03:27									#25
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"This is a result of the demasculinization of Black men by whites during Slavery, Jim Crow, and economic prejudice. Aside from litterally being castrated by white mobs, some Black men feel castrated by not being able to effectively take care of their family (real or potential), and thus must act more manly to counter this. On top of this is the fact that Black women tend to get more and better jobs than Black men, which further demasculinizes them in their own minds. "

Maybe, but be careful when you try to provide reasons for their actions. Hatred towards homosexuals is not acceptable and people are responsible for their own actions, irregardless of historical explanations.