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DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:01
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Why the French should become Americans Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
With anti-Americanism on the rise in Europe, it’s hard to believe a European would publish a book in which the hero, a Frenchman, renounces his citizenship to become an American. It’s even harder to believe when the author is the French homme de gauche Régis Debray—a man whose résumé includes fighting alongside revolutionary Che Guevara in the jungles of Bolivia, advising Chilean President Salvador Allende, serving as a confidante to French President François Mitterrand in the heady days of his first government, and supporting Serbia during the NATO campaign in Kosovo.

But in March 2002, Debray published The Edict of Caracalla, or a Plea for the United States of the West by Xavier de C***. His book makes the ostensible argument that resistance to the United States’ overwhelming power is vain and that Europe’s only hope for survival is in its absorption by the United States.

The Edict of Caracalla takes the form of a long letter, purportedly written to Debray by a former classmate, Xavier de C***, who became a U.S. citizen after a long career as a French high official. Written in English, his adopted language, the letter is de C***’s attempt to justify his decision to make common cause with the United States after the devastating terrorist attacks of 2001. For de C***, becoming American is a way to get on the winning side—and could be Europe’s only hope for survival. “By changing allegiance, I feel I have fulfilled the agenda Dei,” de C*** writes. “That I am realizing rather than renouncing our millennial heritage by anticipating its only possible future.”

De C*** hopes his individual act will be repeated by all Europeans. The nations of Europe are subservient to the United States, he argues, and have no say in decisions made in Washington that affect their lives. Therefore, it would be beneficial for all if an institutional framework existed that would reflect this de facto situation. He proposes the creation of a “United States of the West,” a federation in which each nation-state of old Europe would have roughly the same degree of sovereignty as U.S. states. This new arrangement, de C*** says, would elevate Europeans from their current status of “second-tier Americans to that of full-fledged Americans.”

He appeals to an inspired U.S. president to take as a model Caracalla, the Roman emperor who granted citizenship to all free men of the empire in A.D. 212. “Becoming Americanized in the twenty-first century is like becoming Romanized in the first,” de C*** says. It is to evolve from the status of “Syrian, Spaniard, Gaul or slave, to that of man.”

For Europeans, the benefits would be immense. There would be obvious economies of scale: a streamlined foreign policy, military force, and civil service. But most important, the people of Europe would gain the right to vote for the U.S. president. “By electing directly the president of the Western United States,” de C*** says, “the integrated Europeans will at last be able to exert some influence over what happens to them. They might even rediscover the feeling of having a collective manifest destiny.”

De C*** also provides a list of benefits Americans would accrue if they were to embrace Europeans as compatriots. He cites, for example, the expertise in regulation that the U.S. government would gain if it were to integrate European civil servants into its bureaucracies.

Ultimately, however, de C***’s adoptive patriotism proves as destructive as readers of the old Debray would expect. In fact, it proves fatal. Propelled by his sense of duty as a newly minted U.S. citizen, de C*** volunteers his services as a Central Asia expert to the Pentagon and is killed in Afghanistan—by an errant U.S. bomb. His letter, we learn in the epilogue to The Edict of Caracalla, is being published posthumously.

Debray intends his book as satire, and the book is often quite funny. But de C***’s presentation is also perversely seductive. And for some in France, it turned out to be uncomfortably close to the bone. The slim volume was greeted with stunned silence in Paris literary circles. Jean Daniel, a close friend of Debray’s who edits the left-leaning magazine Le Nouvel Observateur, echoed the sentiment of disquiet the book’s publication received. “The demonstration a contrario by the anti-hero ends up being too effective,” Daniel wrote. “The tongue-in-cheek inventory of humiliations becomes more and more convincing.”

In an interview in July 2002, Debray said his goal was to give France a jolt and make his compatriots confront their nation’s “Swissization,” by which he meant its creeping irrelevance and mediocrity. Using the same technique as Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal, Debray hoped to outrage.

But when he finally rebuts de C***’s arguments in the book’s epilogue, Debray is without passion, as if disarmed by his creation’s superior logic. An even greater problem: Debray appears no longer to believe in the France he is writing, purportedly, to save. De C*** emerges as Debray’s alter ego, echoing the author’s oft-expressed despair about the degraded state of France and Europe’s failure to be more than a “stock market without borders.” Like his character, Debray believes the European Union is little more than an illusion, an anteroom to the complete destruction of the French nation and identity by the U.S. hegemon, or as de C*** puts it, a “transitional object” on the road to denationalization. And Debray only thinly disguises his own feelings when de C*** writes of France: “Apart from a certain quality of life, this country has nothing left to offer the world. It is too busy preserving the circumflex accent, its Roquefort.”

Beneath the facile agitprop, Debray’s book offers valuable insight into the growing resentment in Europe at the perception of U.S. unilateralism. The book allows him to demonstrate how this antipathy coexists uncomfortably with the profound identification and mimetic desire generated by American culture. This portrayal is more nuanced—and accurate—than is the image of blanket hatred Americans now imagine exists toward them abroad. Particularly shocking to Americans after September 11 has been the discovery that hostility toward the United States is not restricted to the Middle East and the developing world but is also sometimes shared by the denizens of Hampstead and the Left Bank. But as Debray suggests, Americans would do well to remember how complex and conflicted these feelings are. Many reporters have had the jarring experience in recent months of hearing a virulent critic of the United States move seamlessly from expressions of support for Osama bin Laden to questions about obtaining a visa to study at Harvard or Stanford. De C*** puts it thus: “Your passport is from the European Union . . . but your libido is made in the U.S.”

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/issue_..._2003/IOW2.html

Last edited by DinoDoc on 01-02-2003 at 10:20

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:10
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quote:
De C*** also provides a list of benefits Americans would accrue if they were to embrace Europeans as compatriots. He cites, for example, the expertise in regulation that the U.S. government would gain if it were to integrate European civil servants into its bureaucracies.


That's all we get? Bureaucrats?

But what the hell? We're a magnanimous people and the State of France can't be anymore annoying than the State of California, can it?

Welcome to the Union, my Eurowimp brothers...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:12 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Become American? Bite your tongue!
Let Canada have them.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:16 Visit DanS's homepage!
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That's classic!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:18
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quote:
Let Canada have them.


Canada will be ours as well...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:29 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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We don't want Canada. No redeeming social values, other than they're better than the French.
Big bragging rights there.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:38
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quote:
We don't want Canada. No redeeming social values, other than they're better than the French.
Big bragging rights there.


Of course we don't want Canada or France; they're both completely worthless nations. But I believe it is our moral duty to admit them into our union and civilize them. The guiding light of American values must be allowed to shine upon our less advanced brothers...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 10:47
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Although I think the notion is a bit silly, America is a lot like the Roman Empire. I mean, the industries of Rome expanded to foreign soils, taking advantage of cheaper labor. Rome accepted many immigrants and you could become a naturalized citizen. Roman armies marched across the land stabilizing and "liberating" indigenous peoples and then stationing troops to guard the "liberated" territories.

There were obvious differences, but Rome, for a long time, was a Republic (like the US) before an authoritarian executive branch (so to speak) decided that it needed more control. Needless to say, Roman's lost much of their freedoms. And then it became a Christian Empire. And then, well, it collapsed.

History repeating itself?

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
Warlord
Evil Empire
Dec 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
Let Canada have them.


Canada will be ours as well...


Personally I think the US is big enough if not too big already. I don't really like sharing government with you non-Californians. In fact I don't like sharing government with Southern Californians either. There certainly should never be a 51st state.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 11:15
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Now, now, gentlemen...both have their uses.

Maple syrup and wines, for example.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 11:20
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I'd only be for it if French woman have to start shaving their armpits and bikini areas, and using deodorants.

Kramerman is offline Kramerman
Prince
UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK


Personally I think the US is big enough if not too big already. I don't really like sharing government with you non-Californians. In fact I don't like sharing government with Southern Californians either. There certainly should never be a 51st state.


I disagree. Canada should join us...err...well.... because i like canada, and i think they would be a positive influence. Split up the provinces into states (not exactly provence x = state x), and BAM, you have like 60 states or so. It'll make the flag a little cluttered with stars tho...
And it shouldnt be sudden of course, but gradual and over time. Should do an EU sorta thing, extensive trade agreements (which we already have via NAFTA), then unify our currency (to the US dollar, of course ), and then move towards political unification.

Kramerman is offline Kramerman
Prince
UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 11:54
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United Kingdom should join too. perhaps Aulstralia and New Zealand as well? damn, that would bring us upwards of 75 stars, i would imagine

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 11:59
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quote:
Debray intends his book as satire, and the book is often quite funny. But de C***’s presentation is also perversely seductive. And for some in France, it turned out to be uncomfortably close to the bone. The slim volume was greeted with stunned silence in Paris literary circles. Jean Daniel, a close friend of Debray’s who edits the left-leaning magazine Le Nouvel Observateur, echoed the sentiment of disquiet the book’s publication received. “The demonstration a contrario by the anti-hero ends up being too effective,” Daniel wrote. “The tongue-in-cheek inventory of humiliations becomes more and more convincing.”

In an interview in July 2002, Debray said his goal was to give France a jolt and make his compatriots confront their nation’s “Swissization,” by which he meant its creeping irrelevance and mediocrity. Using the same technique as Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal, Debray hoped to outrage.




How silly.

-Arrian

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 12:02
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quote:
Many reporters have had the jarring experience in recent months of hearing a virulent critic of the United States move seamlessly from expressions of support for Osama bin Laden to questions about obtaining a visa to study at Harvard or Stanford.




Ain't THAT the truth!

-Arrian

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
Warlord
Evil Empire
Dec 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kramerman
United Kingdom should join too. perhaps Aulstralia and New Zealand as well? damn, that would bring us upwards of 75 stars, i would imagine


That would work about as well as a pizza parlor where you make you own pizza

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 12:54
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

duncan, youre norcal also? and you support the the division of norcal and socal? couldnt agree more with ya!

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 12:55 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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The French should be handled like any other group of lunatics -- lock them up, and leave them alone.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 12:56
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Canada is great

Jon Miller

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 13:01
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wait a sec, is this guy's name cúnt?



seriously, I kind of think he's right.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 15:22
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Become part of the Evil Empire, then destroy it from the inside. What a great plan!

Main_Brain is offline Main_Brain
King
Economic World Center
Jul 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 17:49
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Europe likes Social Systems

123john321 is offline 123john321
King
Boo!
Feb 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 17:57
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The only way Canada would join is that A) Free Health-Care, (gun-control is not share with ALL Canadians like Albert) B) If the UK & UN ok's it.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I'd only be for it if French woman have to start shaving their armpits and bikini areas, and using deodorants.
They do. German women don't.
(I wonder why I try to rebunk this myth ; I have rebunked it each time I've seen it, and yet nobody listens )

Demerzel is offline Demerzel
Warlord

Jul 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 18:08
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you could join us if you want but we won't join you. I prefer not to get robbed or shot any time I go outside. I also like free health care.

Finally I don't think I'm into patting myself on the back every day telling myself that I'm great 'cos I'm an American, reciting the pledge of allegiance every day in case I forget who I am, carrying a gun to protect myself which stats prove will ironically be used to shoot me with and generally ignoring everyone else's opinion 'cos if they aren't American then they aren't important - duh!

heh good luck getting the rest of the world to join you though

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 18:10
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Tired of ads?

There is no way I trade superior French food for disgusting American food
There is no way I trade the fantastic French culture for the bastardised subpar American "culture"
There is no way I trade my fabulous French way of life for a pathetic American way of life
There is no way I trade my enlightened French love of peace for a barbaric American hawkishness
There is no way I trade my subtle and fine French language for the ignominious American rumbles

And more importantly :

There is no way I lose my superior French arrogance for an inferior American arrogance

Note : pleasenote the sarcasm

Last edited by Spiffor on 01-02-2003 at 21:27

123john321 is offline 123john321
King
Boo!
Feb 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Demerzel
you could join us if you want but we won't join you. I prefer not to get robbed or shot any time I go outside. I also like free health care.

Finally I don't think I'm into patting myself on the back every day telling myself that I'm great 'cos I'm an American, reciting the pledge of allegiance every day in case I forget who I am, carrying a gun to protect myself which stats prove will ironically be used to shoot me with and generally ignoring everyone else's opinion 'cos if they aren't American then they aren't important - duh!

heh good luck getting the rest of the world to join you though


Ahmen brother!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:42
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quote:
There is no way I lose my superior French arrogance for an inferior American arrogance


Isn't that the truth. Americans may be the best at everything else, but we can't compete with French arrogance...

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