01-02-2003 23:14									#1
	Help with New Map Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have been creating a large European map which is very realistic in dimension. I have already placed some key features such as mountain ranges and major rivers. However, I have been unable to fill the map with realistic terrain such as forests, plains etc. I have searched the net in vain for a really good map site to help me. Can any experienced mappers help me out here? Would anyone fill it for me?

It is just so frustrating to have so many scenario ideas but to stumble because I can't decorate a blooming map!

	02-02-2003 01:46									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

You should precise which period in history you are interested in. Modern Europe has much less forest than ancient Europe.

	02-02-2003 02:14									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Of course that would help. The map is primarily for WWII scenarios.

	02-02-2003 13:26									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A few links:
http://www.wri.org/ffi/maps/euroruss.htm gives a small map of forests in Europe (modern days).
It can be reached from http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/vegmaps2.html#europe which contains many links.
Also http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEUROPE.html
links to a small map of Europe potential vegetation. Basically, crossing both gives you forest/tundra/plains/prairies patterns.

	02-02-2003 15:58									#5
	Remove this text

will you publish your map after finishing? i´m always looking forward playing on good maps

	02-02-2003 17:01									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I've sent you a PM caspian

	02-02-2003 17:31									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

If you download Mercator's MapEdit, you would see that included in that is a terrain map of all Europe. You might not trust it entirely, but it has terrain features...

	02-02-2003 17:34									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Two words: Harlan Thompson
And also his "European Map Maker" (see downloads) can be very helpful. It's a bitmap designed to create Civ2 maps from. The data Harlan used to make it is from WWII era maps.

	02-02-2003 17:36									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

crosspost... MapEdit 2.1 no longer includes the map, but it IS available from the same website, as I described.

	02-02-2003 23:48									#10
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Thanks for the help everyone. Lets see if I can get this finished now, thx. Here is an outline of what I am creating. It has been filled quite alot since I made this picture. What do you think of the general layout?

Attachment: newmap.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

Last edited by Caspian on 02-02-2003 at 23:53

	02-02-2003 23:51									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh yeah, before anyone comments, there is a reason for the Rhine being rather large. Same goes for the Don Bend that you can see to the right And lol you can see why I've been needing help making it physically realistic when it comes to terrain. Although I am quite happy with the general positioning of those mountain ranges you can see.

Last edited by Caspian on 02-02-2003 at 23:57

	03-02-2003 00:46									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do you want the Rhine to be navigable or a total barrier to land movement, or both? If you just want it to be navigable to sea units, you can combine ocean squares with river terrain so that land units can cross at specific places, but ships can move up and down the river as well.

If those are the Carpathian Mountains in the Balkans area, they should be placed more to the north and east.

	03-02-2003 01:16									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Tech, thanks for the comments about the Carpathians. Yes I see on my Atlas that the are slightly out of place. Oh well, it is fairly easy to change something like that. As for the Rhine, the most recent addition has some crossing points, particulartly in the Ardennes area. In the northern area I plan to add a land square and put a bridge unit on it to give the impression that the river is continuous.

Ps, I know you can't see it on this scale but I do have alot of rivers added. Volga, Don, Dnieper, Oder etc. They are key elements to formulating defensive strategy in the scenario I am creating (read "bungling through" here) and will change them to ocean squares if my other idea for them does not work.

	03-02-2003 01:36									#14
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Well, here is a better view of the work in process.

Attachment: theeast.jpg
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	03-02-2003 02:08									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Is there a reason why the Rhine is made of ocean squares and not hte Danube? I can understand you don't want all rivers made of ocean, but if Europe's biggest river looks smaller than the Rhine, it feels a bit strange.

	03-02-2003 02:23									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, the ocean squares for the Rhine are a concession for gameplay over realism. For the planned scenario, the German player needs this aid to maintain a defensive position in the west. I was hoping that an event would trigger the change of terrain in this area (e.g. a city behind the Rhine being captured by parachute troops). However, I'm not sure if this is a viable idea. In the east however I want the combat to be less static. These rivers will have other deterents for attacking troops.