03-02-2003 02:22									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Aeson, Sir Ralph, Theseus ... In case you didn't notice, they are all members of our team. Now, if we could convince a few more: Catt, Velocyrix ...

When did Sir Ralph join Legoland? (you have the Legoland civgroups next to your avatar)

	03-02-2003 02:34									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Things happen between turns that you didn't expect. This game, unlike our Dem Game, will require an executive with a great deal of autonomy and authority. Personally, I'd be very pleased to see one of our resident experts step forward and take the lead in this game. Someone who can adequately represent the great Apolyton reputation to the outside world. --Togas

I second both these points.

On the second point, however, with the caveat that the team is still heavily involved.

	03-02-2003 02:39									#33
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deleted

	03-02-2003 02:41									#34
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very funny

quote: (you have the Legoland civgroups next to your avatar)

... and so is the Intersite Democracy Game: Apolyton team civgroup's icon.

	03-02-2003 02:44									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Hee hee. Now if you hadn't voted against me in the Civ3DG election, I wouldn't have so much time to micromanage stuff for the Domestic Ministry on the RP Team, now would I?

How do you know I didn't do it on purpose?

With Aro and Aggie in power they don't have enough time to deal with the PTW game and now I have you, Togas, and ET all shoved onto the same team.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" sort of thing. Now if I can just keep your team mad at me long enough for my plan to come to fruitition......


Muwhahahahhahahahahaha.

What the? Lackey, what happened to Mr. Bond?

	03-02-2003 02:45									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Things happen between turns that you didn't expect. Offers, enemy movement, barbarians, and so forth. Decisions have to be made and the save must be sent on.

Exactly what I was saying. Why would those who have the authority to play be different than the President and the VP?

quote: The way I see it, the ministers' orders will be "recommendations" that the President/Turn Player should follow, unless something changes.

But very strong recommandations. The President should have good reasons not to follow them.

	03-02-2003 03:40									#37
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I'm with Togas in this issue. The team captain, president, or whatever name he receives, must be strong enough to take decisions and prevent bureaucracy from taking over. Of course, this chief can and must be checked regularly, but every certain time, not on a day by day basis. Usually is better to take a decision, even if this isn't the decission we would take, than to not take any decission at all.

	03-02-2003 03:42									#38
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb "Too many cooks spoil the broth" sort of thing. Now if I can just keep your team mad at me long enough for my plan to come to fruitition......

Huh?! You got me. Is your plan that we'll all be mad at you and then suddenly kill each other in a fit of Ghengal-inspired lunacy?

Or that making us mad will make us see your team as the enemy and it will make us so narrowly focused on your demise that we won't pay attention as another team wins.

Oh, I get it! You want another team to win in the Team-Demo Game! I'm sorry, I must be too focused on being mad at you.

--Togas

	03-02-2003 04:17									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Oh, I get it! You want another team to win in the Team-Demo Game! I'm sorry, I must be too focused on being mad at you. --Togas

I'll tell you at the end of the month, right now I still have to keep you mad at me.

	03-02-2003 05:14									#40
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb How do you know I didn't do it on purpose? With Aro and Aggie in power they don't have enough time to deal with the PTW game and now I have you, Togas, and ET all shoved onto the same team. "Too many cooks spoil the broth" sort of thing. Now if I can just keep your team mad at me long enough for my plan to come to fruitition......

Only in my dreams could you possibly be that dumb...

Too bad, really

(But I'm pretty satisfied with things as they are )

	03-02-2003 06:24									#41
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Wow, it's amazing how all this trash talk is happening in here when there is a thread for it in the PTW forum.

Agreed that the turnplayer needs the power to change orders on the fly, though that could make any SMC position pretty much worthless... hmm... maybe the SMC should be a turnplayer? He could do all turnplay during wartime.

	03-02-2003 09:12									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Wow, it's amazing how all this trash talk is happening in here when there is a thread for it in the PTW forum.

Apparently by ploy was extremely successful.

	03-02-2003 23:21									#43
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Apparently by ploy was extremely successful.

Your ploy was to get us to trash talk on the Intersite team page, thereby getting us to ... be angry with you here as well?

Wow. Brilliant ploy. I'm in awe at your cunning.

--Togas

	04-02-2003 00:59									#44
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*blunders into the private forum*
Ah, here it is!

Arnelos, I thank you for your vote of confidence in by diplomatic abilities. The Diplomatic Ministry will of course be one of the most important throughout the game, and its system alone merits our attention.

Speaking of the larger system, and taking other opinions into consideration, I beleive that there should be:

A Directory-
3 People, with the autority to play the game. They can take any action within the law; however, they must follow minister orders and a 24-hour majority vote of the Senate can remove a Director from office, to be replaced by the initiator of the poll . (that should be a fun little mechanism)

-High Council
Basically a court with 3 or 5 Justices, with expanded powers to give an order to prevent the Directory from carrying out a specfic action

-Ministers
-Domestic Minister
Controls workers, city planning, and queue orders
-Finance Minister
Controls budget, science direction and spending.
-Foreign Affairs Minister
Controls the Diplomatic department, including given instructions to ambassadors, determining trades, and signing treaties.
-Supreme Military Commander
Controls military units, etc.

-Senate
Makes laws, can give direct legislative orders to Executive branch. Elects Councilmen, Ministers, and Directors. (Directorship and ministers last a month, Councilmen 2 months.)

	04-02-2003 01:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Thud the Senate can remove a Director from office, to be replaced by the initiator of the poll . (that should be a fun little mechanism)

What an idea... Really! Could be fun!

	04-02-2003 05:30									#46
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Bear in mind everyone, that the competition is not between APolyton itself, but between Apolyton and the other Civ Communities. We should try at all costs to prevent as many potential problems as possible, and work as closely as a team as we can

I've been writing in bold today cuz I feel like making obvious statements....in bold.

	04-02-2003 06:55									#47
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I disagree with Director removal idea for one reason. I may want to remove someone but at the same time I may not want to play te actual game because a) I am too busy at that time b) the game may be in a position where my strengths/weaknesses as a player would not serve our team in the current situation. Lets have the person polling be allowed to nominate someone if they wish before initiating the poll.

	04-02-2003 18:30									#48
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quote: Lets have the person polling be allowed to nominate someone if they wish before initiating the poll.

Like the vote of no-confidence I proposed earlier on.

I also think that this no-con vote should be able to be used on ministers.

I also believe that one month is slightly too short for an MP demogame. Turns go slightly slower, and experience is good.

	04-02-2003 19:55									#49
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Some experiences with elections:

IRL, I just got a seat in a University election board.
These elections have been very much of a tense bureaucratic nature, and got fewer and fewer voters...
One of my tasks is to improve the students democracy,
by organizing better elections. A way to handle this, is to announce early and massively, that there will be an election this
date, there, and that you must go and vote... Also managing to get all candidates to announce their cases and get the voters attention in time.

- I think some of this is useful in a demogame too... e.g. when arranging election polls (and no-confidence polls?). Generally, elections should be covered by a constitution. So we need to make a thread to discuss that. I will come back to this issue later.

	04-02-2003 20:59									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Bear in mind everyone, that the competition is not between APolyton itself, but between Apolyton and the other Civ Communities. We should try at all costs to prevent as many potential problems as possible, and work as closely as a team as we can I've been writing in bold today cuz I feel like making obvious statements....in bold.

hi ,

T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore

indeed we should put our efforts more in working together and use it that as a cutting edge towards the other site's , ......

with an efficient dividing of our workload we can take any other team from any other site , .....

have a nice TEAM day

	04-02-2003 21:11									#51
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Quite true. That's why I believe we need to elect a leader who is
competent on teamwork, and who listens to his teammates. It's the key role of our future leaders.

	05-02-2003 01:34									#52
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PlagueRat, your post was quite intelligent and understandable. Are you drunk ?

	05-02-2003 01:57									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius PlagueRat, your post was quite intelligent and understandable. Are you drunk ?

Are you referring to my avatar, or are you just trying to make fun of me? However, perhaps you can post something quite intelligent and understandable too? Go ahead my friend!

	05-02-2003 02:19									#54
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I thought my post was understandable. (I wouldn't dare to say that it was intelligent)

Anyway, only this part was joke: "are you drunk ?", and yes, I was referring to your avatar.

Gosh, you wouldn't expect from somebody who empties a bottle in 2 seconds to be so sensitive

	05-02-2003 02:31									#55
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Your post is all just fine! and correct, my avatar is quite drunk.
(and I'm just tired after a long meeting, so I just wants his beer now)

BTW: It's kinda funny to watch how we posters tend to think of the other posters as their avatar. I tend to think of Arnelos as this nasty old man, and Spiffor as one of my toys.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 05-02-2003 at 02:39

	05-02-2003 02:49									#56
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I think you're right. Maybe If I had a clown in my avatar, you wouldn't have got upset on me in the first place.

The most interesting is when somebody has a beautiful woman in his avatar, and you think that he/she's a gorgeous woman while he's a #$%@#$^ man Bah, those avatars should be forbidden.

Edit: That pesky attachment bug is still active, so I can't attach my beer to this post. Sorry

Last edited by Tiberius on 05-02-2003 at 02:56

	05-02-2003 16:51									#57
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I have read through this thread and there is just one important thing I would like to stress/add. Having a competent player to play the turns for our team is not enough. Having someone able to listen well to the rest of the Poly team to play the turns is not enough. We need a competent player able to listen to the rest of the team to play our turns. Both virtues (being a skilled player and being able to "feel" what the team wants) are essential.

I also agree that a purely democractic system is not flexible/suitable enough. The executives need to have a certain degree of freedom in what they do. If the rest of the team does not approve their way of using this freedom, they shall be replaced.

	06-02-2003 04:34									#58
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat It's kinda funny to watch how we posters tend to think of the other posters as their avatar. I tend to think of Arnelos as this nasty old man, and Spiffor as one of my toys.

I hate to think about what you think of me...

	06-02-2003 08:23									#59
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Some experiences with elections: IRL, I just got a seat in a University election board. These elections have been very much of a tense bureaucratic nature, and got fewer and fewer voters... One of my tasks is to improve the students democracy, by organizing better elections. A way to handle this, is to announce early and massively, that there will be an election this date, there, and that you must go and vote... Also managing to get all candidates to announce their cases and get the voters attention in time. - I think some of this is useful in a demogame too... e.g. when arranging election polls (and no-confidence polls?). Generally, elections should be covered by a constitution. So we need to make a thread to discuss that. I will come back to this issue later.

Having participated in a large number of student government elections while I was a student leader in college, I feel for you...

I know very well that you do not have an easy job.

But, then again, I was always one of the people either running for office or trying to line up votes for people running office that I supported... so I was the other side of that one

I honestly miss it... I loved being able to participate in politics among so many amateurs and do-nothing resume-pushers it was easy to look good in comparison to I can now say that RL politics isn't anywhere nearly as easy...

	06-02-2003 08:39									#60
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat BTW: It's kinda funny to watch how we posters tend to think of the other posters as their avatar. I tend to think of Arnelos as this nasty old man, and Spiffor as one of my toys.

I'm actually in my 20's

My current avatar is William Gladstone, a prominant Victorian British statesman and (some argue) either one of the finest statesmen Britain has ever produced or the finest (depending on their ideological perspective, of course ). Whatever anyone thinks of his politics, there is little argument regarding his famous rhetorical talents... I think of the avatar as something of a "good luck charm" when attempting to make posts persuasive Whlie Mr. Gladstone was a conservative turned a liberal and indeed the leader of the Liberal Party throughout much of the 19th Century and I'm far more of a contemporary conservative, many argue (myself included) that 19th Century "liberalism" and late 20th Century "conservatism" are essentially the same thing, contemporary "liberalism" being an entirely different beast altogether

The avatar also represents my roleplayed position as a leader of the DIA party in the SPDG, which has quite the 19th Century "liberal" perspective. The DIA's hostility to slavery, violent oppression of other civilizations, and other such things make a Gladstone avatar rather appropriate

I'll switch back to my Palpatine avatar at some point... that one has more to do with projecting the persona of political player I've played role-played space strategy games (including a little-known grognard game I was helping to playtest last year) where Palpatine was my avatar as "Chancellor Arnelos"... it's a favorite of mine because it fits my playstyle

That said, I don't mind if people think of me as a somewhat manipulative and at times ruthless old man There were bitter opponents who saw me that way in RL in college politics despite the fact that I was then only about 21