03-02-2003 10:11									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui What you 'want' is totally irrelevant. Why don't you focus on how the world actually is?

It's not irrelevant at all. If mankind had focused only on how the world actually is, we'd still be living caves. Instead we've constantly striven for something better. I see no reason to stop now.

	03-02-2003 10:15									#122
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Mankind has striven for what is ATTAINABLE! Not pipe dreams (well except for the commies, and look how that turned out).

With the anarchic nature of the international system there will be no superior control federal authority. The strongest powers in the system will not give that power up.

	03-02-2003 10:28									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Mankind has striven for what is ATTAINABLE! Not pipe dreams (well except for the commies, and look how that turned out).

The majority of people want Bush to work within the UN. Why exactly is that an unattainable goal? Aside from the fact that Bush is nothing but a warmonger. He hasn't even considered any other option but brute force.

	03-02-2003 10:35									#124
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You said, and I quote:

By moving against what little we have in place now in regards to international justice, the US risks forgoing any such system from ever taking hold.

International 'Justice' is unattainable. There is no use talking about it.

True international justice is if the UN went around taking out Saddam, the Ayatollahs in Iran, the Taliban (when it had the chance), Sharon, etc. They had problems even with the Taliban after 9/11. To wish for 'international justice' is akin to dream of time machines.

Actual justice (nationally or internationally) is what the majority of people feel will be justice. If Bush suceeds, it will be deemed justice. If he fails, it probably won't.

	03-02-2003 10:40									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui International 'Justice' is unattainable. There is no use talking about it.

Since you've already closed your mind to the concept, then I guess you're right.

	03-02-2003 17:07									#126
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Imran, when does your unit ship out?

	03-02-2003 18:43									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Willem The majority of people want Bush to work within the UN. Why exactly is that an unattainable goal? Aside from the fact that Bush is nothing but a warmonger. He hasn't even considered any other option but brute force.

If you want to be critical at least be fair. You have no idea what Bush has or has not considered.

Working through the UN? Yeah, right. The UN has no authority over it's member nations. The UN can't save you. The US can.

	03-02-2003 19:10									#128
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem Imran, when does your unit ship out?

What does that have to do with anything?

	03-02-2003 19:54									#129
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I guess he thinks I'm for the war in Iraq, DD .

	03-02-2003 20:01									#130
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick If you want to be critical at least be fair. You have no idea what Bush has or has not considered.

Give me a break! He's said so many times now that he will go it alone if need be. Or do you hear only what you want to?

quote: Working through the UN? Yeah, right. The UN has no authority over it's member nations. The UN can't save you. The US can.

The UN worked fairly well with Kuwait!

	03-02-2003 20:09									#131
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quote: The UN worked fairly well with Kuwait!

The UN was only used to serve as a barometer of support for the US coalition, which was already in place BEFORE the UN resolution. If it failed (ie, USSR vetoed it), Kuwait still would have been liberated.

The UN is useful in many things, but war making, it is not.