03-02-2003 08:32									#61
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Axis tip for seasons. A decent rotation period.

And why do you need these exactly? A planet doesn't need to be identical to Earth in order for life of some kind to flourish.

	03-02-2003 08:38									#62
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I personally don't think there is intelligent life elsewhere. For several reasons, that's a matter of personal belief.

But if there were, I think the odds are overwhelming in favour of these intelligent lifeforms being technologically superior to us. Given that mankind has only known industrialization for ~200 years compared to the 1-1.5 million years humans have been around, we are still technological infants compared to the presumed average level of advancement among intelligent lifeforms.

Other lifeforms may likely have had the opportunity for industrial advancement a thousand times longer than we have, and only a small group will have had that opportunity for a shorter time than humans.

If they're out there, and close enough to contact Earth, I can't see any reason why they would since we have nothing to offer them. Heck, we've only known radio for 100 years, that's nothing in the great scheme of things.

	03-02-2003 08:51									#63
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quote: And why do you need these exactly? A planet doesn't need to be identical to Earth in order for life of some kind to flourish.

Willem,
Seasons and days help to even out surface temperatures across the earth. A planet with a slow rotation will broil on one side, and freeze on the other.

Surface temperature has a huge effect on the weather patterns of a planet as well.

Decent would probably mean every few days or so, unlike Mercury or Venus.

The question is how different can these parameters change to still allow intelligent lifeforms to develop. Having only one data point is going to skew our requirements.

[edit grammer]

	03-02-2003 08:58									#64
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There may be intelligent life out there somewhere, but I don't believe that we'll ever run into it. I don't think that it's possible to travel fast enough to make significant interstellar travel possible. It might be possible someday to make it as far as the next star, or even the one after that, but any further and you can forget it.

	03-02-2003 09:05									#65
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 The question is how different can these parameters change to still allow intelligent lifeforms to develop. Having only one data point is going to skew our requirements.

That's the point I was trying to make. So far we only have our own model to go by, but that doesn't necessarily mean a planet has to be nearly identical to ours in order to support intelligent life. There could be all sorts of variations that would allow the right conditions. We just don't know.

	03-02-2003 09:09									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove There may be intelligent life out there somewhere, but I don't believe that we'll ever run into it. I don't think that it's possible to travel fast enough to make significant interstellar travel possible. It might be possible someday to make it as far as the next star, or even the one after that, but any further and you can forget it.

Who's to say? It wasn't very long ago that people used to say that man would never be able to fly. In quantum physics, some people are speculating about the possibilty of creating a wormhole, which can take a ship from galactic point A to galactic point B in a very short while.

Just because we don't have the technology to travel faster than light yet, doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible.

	03-02-2003 09:16									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Winston I personally don't think there is intelligent life elsewhere. For several reasons, that's a matter of personal belief.

But is that based on something rational? It just seems odd to me for anyone to assert aliens don't exist. I've yet to see a rational reason for such a belief.

quote: But if there were, I think the odds are overwhelming in favour of these intelligent lifeforms being technologically superior to us. Given that mankind has only known industrialization for ~200 years compared to the 1-1.5 million years humans have been around, we are still technological infants compared to the presumed average level of advancement among intelligent lifeforms. Other lifeforms may likely have had the opportunity for industrial advancement a thousand times longer than we have, and only a small group will have had that opportunity for a shorter time than humans. If they're out there, and close enough to contact Earth, I can't see any reason why they would since we have nothing to offer them. Heck, we've only known radio for 100 years, that's nothing in the great scheme of things.

This is pure conjecture. Why should we assume any alien species were able to develop before us? What if Earth was the first planet where life was able to begin? Maybe ours was one of the first galaxies to form, and so we have a head start. Or maybe not--do we have any idea?

For all we know, we could be the most advanced species in the galaxy. Or we could be the slowest, who knows? But it's just speculation either way.

	03-02-2003 09:30									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Winston But if there were, I think the odds are overwhelming in favour of these intelligent lifeforms being technologically superior to us. Given that mankind has only known industrialization for ~200 years compared to the 1-1.5 million years humans have been around, we are still technological infants compared to the presumed average level of advancement among intelligent lifeforms.

That's not even the half of it.
Consider the large-scale extinction events at the end of the Permian and the Triassic and assume that such hadn't taken place. Had lifeforms in either of these era's evolved to a more advanced state (and supposedly there were a number of potential candidates in the Triassic at least) they could be tens or even hundreds of millions of years more advanced than mankind right now.

quote: Why should we assume any alien species were able to develop before us? What if Earth was the first planet where life was able to begin? Maybe ours was one of the first galaxies to form, and so we have a head start. Or maybe not--do we have any idea?

Um. That's not quite pure conjecture ... regarding the formation of our galaxy anyway. The age of a galaxy is presumably proportional to the age of the stars therein and many many galaxies have stellar bodies far older than the oldest (known) star in the milky way.
Of course this does assume current stellar models are in most ways fairly accurate ...

	03-02-2003 09:31									#69
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Of course there are other forms of intelligent, advanced life in the universe besides here on Earth.

What I refuse to believe in, is that aliens have visited our planet, and kidnapped or made temporary contacts with some individual humans.
I just cannot accept that, in spite of some people who insist that tabloids are reputable sources of information and facts.

And if you want to get even more loony, there are human kooks who believe that there are aliens who have secretly colonized among us here on Earth. Completely false, unless one or both of the following are possibilities:

1) Are Finns, Swedes, and Norwegians really aliens?

2) My lack of humor might raise suspicion among Apolytoners that I am in fact, an alien from another planet. Great -- I just blew my cover.

	03-02-2003 10:58									#70
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I have to hand it to you, you're a bright fellow Boris, of course it's speculation. What else would it be.

If you noticed, I posted what my personal belief and thoughts on the matter were. No need to get aggressive about it.

	04-02-2003 00:04									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Winston I have to hand it to you, you're a bright fellow Boris, of course it's speculation. What else would it be. If you noticed, I posted what my personal belief and thoughts on the matter were. No need to get aggressive about it.

Who was getting aggressive? I was just asking for a rationale.

And since you stated that you thought the "odds were overwhelming" for alien life being more advanced than ours, I just am wondering what makes you think that. What factors are influencing those odds?

If something is purely speculative, I don't see how any odds can be calculated at all.

	04-02-2003 01:42									#72
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I believe that Aliens do exist and would whup the asses of Predators and Colonial Marines any day.

	04-02-2003 01:46									#73
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Was it just me or did anyone else find the xenomorphs in the Aliens saga to be terrifyingly beautiful creatures?

	04-02-2003 01:52									#74
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Agreed, Starchild!

And Ali....c'mon....you're not giving the Colonial Marines enough credit...if they'da left Gorman at home, they'd have unleashed all sorts of happy-slappy hell on those punk aliens....

-=Vel=-

	04-02-2003 02:04									#75
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Yeah, Colonial marines are very respectable, esp. with the smart gun.

the predator is a very good covert operative, however his stealth and various weaponary do not do him any good when he's confronts swarms of marines, and especially aliens.

Starchild: It is a very elegant creature, imo. too bad it cannot exist. .

ANYWAY, BACK ON TOPIC....

In terms of visits of earth by Extra-terrestrials, I believe it to be quite possible. One of my primary suspects is god. There are so many "miracles" in the bible that can be recreated simply by technological means, that it is quite frightening, really.

However, I do not think they're into destroying us, or mutilating us for fun. I also do not think they're all fuzzy and cuddly, and well-intentioned. They have their goals, and we have our goals, and these don't exclude each-other. thankfully.

	04-02-2003 02:46									#76
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If this is the only planet with life, it'd be an awful waste of space...