19-02-2001 07:02									#1
	Builders, maps, and builder maps... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There are certainly many people on here who seem like good players. It looks like everybody here is playing on Transcend, and knows most of the finer points of terraforming, base placement, research, specialists, etc.

So I have to ask, why do I always hear people talking about playing on large/huge maps? I notice DilithiumDad's posts contain a link to "The Ultimate Builder Map"... Is this something people are actually looking for? I'm certainly not trying to be an ass, but are people looking for ways to make life easier for builders?

So, I'm just wondering, how many people on here play with large/huge maps? Especially if you're playing against the AI, how is that a challenge? Even when I first got the game and had almost no strategy, I remember thinking big maps were pretty lame. Even on Transcend/Ironman, it's just too easy to hang back and do absolutely nothing. The only way to possibly lose is to be so far behind in tech that you don't have AAA tracking when Yang decides to launch Needlejets at you.

Or am I missing something?

	19-02-2001 08:39									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I do not play multi-player but believe that in MP larger maps are preferred in some cases so that builders actually have a chance. As you can imagine, if you start next to a human controlled Spartans or believers you could be eradicated before any of those nice strategies come to fruition.


In SP I generally play standard random maps but would agree that a larger map might give you more time to get your empire in good order

As for DD's Ultimate Builders Challenge, I thought that it was a map designed to make the game harder for builders. Usually the challenges all try to stack things against you to make the game difficult. For example play as the cult stuck on a little island (so no easy worm rush on anyone) with sparse fungus. Then add into it that every faction is set in mutual unbreakable submissive pacts and every faction is an atrocity victim of you in permanent vendetta. I don't recall what the name of that challenge was but you get the idea. If someone has designed a map or challenge, everything is designed to work against the human.

	19-02-2001 09:03									#3
	Put an end to popups!

cbn, you're referring to Zsozso's Ultimate Builder Challenge. Dimension, if you'd like to give it a whirl, I have the scenario file - email me at misotu@hotmail.com. If you think larger maps give the human an advantage against the AI, this one may make you change your mind

The original challenge thread can be found here and I currently hold the record, for completion in 2364.

DiDad's Ult Build Map is very good - I've played a few games on it now and it is an excellent map for a human multiplayer game or, indeed, for a human vs AI scenario. DiDad took the Map of Planet and modified it, creating sensible landing sites with fungal barriers preventing the early rover rush.

The thing about being a builder is that you want the time to develop your infrastructure how you like it, and *then* have a titanic clash with another, well-developed faction. This map enables exactly that, and penalises factions trying to do the early conquistador approach ...
[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited February 18, 2001).]

	19-02-2001 18:16									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I generally play on huge, random maps.

Random, because it seems unrealistic to me to know where to find the landmarks and to know the general shapes of the continents before You discovered them, as it would be always play the standard maps of planet.

And I play huge maps for two reasons: First, because I like the exploring, and second, a huge map is more realistic than a small. A planet represented by a small map wouldn't have enough gravitation to keep the settlers on ground or to have any atmosphere.

I don't think that playing on huge planet is easier than on small. I agree that builder's get a little more time, but on the other hand, You need more time for making contact and trade techs, and a conquer victory is much more difficult on a huge planet.

"Steelborn, Starborn"

	20-02-2001 10:08									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The UBM is designed to give separated start sites. Many people are annoyed that on random maps you will often be given an HQ six tiles away from Sparta Command, with most of the map sitting empty.

Also, the UBM is high in resources, which favors the AI. The AI will build more bases and generally be much stronger on the UBM than on a random map.

------------------
Creator of the Ultimate Builder Map, based on the Huge Map of Planet, available at The Chironian Guild:
http://guild.ask-klan.net.pl/eng/index.html